[SPOILERS] No one seems to be talking about that OTHER huge event

[Alleo]

(I wanted to make it clear that I am just speculating too, hopefully none take my posts as me believing that those are facts - just wanted to point that out)

Also this is probably still a bit off topic but I found another point which could hint that we changed the bad future already.

Before Shadowbringers the old Mol Au Ra talked about us having a shadow hanging over us (dont know the specific words anymore). Some believed that this was a hint that we will turn to darkness. But now after 5.0 I believe that this might have hinted at something else.

What is big enough to leave a shadow over us? Well maybe the coming death of us! Nothing could be worse than for us to die.

And now that 5.0 is over she has updated dialogue. She is happy that our Light shines brightly again and strangely even brighter than before. The last part seems to hint at Ardbert rejoining with us but for the first part it seems that something must have changed to last time. And well what would better fit with us shining brigthly again then us having changed our fate and death not looming in the near future. And with us changing that we also changed the bad future because we would need to die there to make that one happen.

[Iscah]

Also this is probably still a bit off topic but I found another point which could hint that we changed the bad future already.

That fits with what I've been saying though. Up until we changed the situation on the First, we were still on track to the bad future after G'raha started to meddle with the timeline. Just being there and starting to change things* wasn't enough to alter the final outcome.


* for the wibbly-wobbly stable-time-loop variety of "change" where the time-traveler's actions were actually always part of the timeline.

[Alleo]

That fits with what I've been saying though. Up until we changed the situation on the First, we were still on track to the bad future after G'raha started to meddle with the timeline. Just being there and starting to change things* wasn't enough to alter the final outcome.


* for the wibbly-wobbly stable-time-loop variety of "change" where the time-traveler's actions were actually always part of the timeline.

Or she would have already seen a change after we went on the first but because we did stay there in the story itself she never got the chance to tell us (or even see us) and thus it was only done after 5.0. Of course it could always meant that we could have died on the first too or changed into a Lightwarden but that would have changed the future too because we would not be on the source and died to the weapon. Anyways no matter when we changed it on the travel, seemingly its changed now. (Or its only fluff text and I am reading way too much into that :'D)

Time travel I hate you!

(In the end our character can never die in this game because of it being an MMO so this means that whatever we will see that it wont be the bad future. Of course theoretically they could use black rose in some ways but not in the part where it destroys the source. Otherwise it would become a strange story to tell - but still enjoying the discussion about this)

[Kallera]

(In the end our character can never die in this game because of it being an MMO so this means that whatever we will see that it wont be the bad future. Of course theoretically they could use black rose in some ways but not in the part where it destroys the source. Otherwise it would become a strange story to tell - but still enjoying the discussion about this)

You know, I keep seeing this, and personally, I just do not agree with it. Between the soul fractions and the concept that people can exist in sundered and unsundered states, There are enough plot tools available to arrange the WoL’s “death” and yet keep the player character around, should the plot go in that direction.

I don’t think it is quite as insurmountable as people would think, indeed, it might even be needed if future plots are going to be made.

[TankHunter678]

You know, I keep seeing this, and personally, I just do not agree with it. I believe there are enough plot tools available to arrange the WoL’s “death” and yet keep the player character around, should the plot go in that direction.

I don’t think it is quite as insurmountable as people would think, indeed, it might even be needed if we are to have room for future plots.

Considering we have the Echo they really could just kill us in battle and we could go and possess some other body. Especially since I think Elidibus would try to take our body to ruin all we have built up so we would have to go pull a Zenos and beat Elidibus out of our own body and get it back.

[Alleo]

You know, I keep seeing this, and personally, I just do not agree with it. Between the soul fractions and the concept that people can exist in sundered and unsundered states, There are enough plot tools available to arrange the WoL’s “death” and yet keep the player character around, should the plot go in that direction.

I don’t think it is quite as insurmountable as people would think, indeed, it might even be needed if future plots are going to be made.

The problem is that these souls are not us. Just like Ardbert was not us. Dieing would mean that the character is stripped from his/her memories, that they are not the same they are now. The only thing I could see is us mastering the echo and doing some body hopping, like Zenos did, but I am not sure if that would count as death. What I mean is the thing that happened in the bad future. Truly the end for our characters. And seeing how we are reborn at least a few times and cant remember one bit of that I would find it just bad to do this to our character.

[Kallera]

The problem is that these souls are not us. Just like Ardbert was not us. Dieing would mean that the character is stripped from his/her memories, that they are not the same they are now. The only thing I could see is us mastering the echo and doing some body hopping, like Zenos did, but I am not sure if that would count as death. What I mean is the thing that happened in the bad future. Truly the end for our characters. And seeing how we are reborn at least a few times and cant remember one bit of that I would find it just bad to do this to our character.

Remember how it was mentioned that even sundered souls can be uplifted into the personality of the Ascian it is made of? Or it can be that if the soul gets sundered, they are stipped of memories or even more, but enough remains to retain the image.

The body surviving with enough soul to live, is really all the player would need to keep “progressing”, we are not playing as our plot coupons, after all.

[Alleo]

Remember how it was mentioned that even sundered souls can be uplifted into the personality of the Ascian it is made of? Or it can be that if the soul gets sundered, they are stipped of memories or even more, but enough remains to retain the image.

The body surviving with enough soul to live, is really all the player would need to keep “progressing”, we are not playing as our plot coupons, after all.

Was it said that they would regain the memories of the old soul because for me it just sounded like they got their power back and since they were tempered before the split it was probably a lot easier to convince them. Also not sure if we should look at method of the Ascians for that..seeing how they dont count the split souls as living I just can see how they forced the original person to be killed of (as in destroying their memories) so that they can be ready to assume their new role.

That would also happen with the other shards of the original soul. Ardbert gave up his part on his own free will and seemingly ceased to exist. (At least that its probably what happened because the exarch is the one talking over at the end) Minfilia also stopped existing when giving Ryne her power. Sundered Souls would have none of our memories, heck we dont even know if any memory of the old Amaurot days remained in any of us. Right now nothing has giving us any flashbacks so it might be possible that the souls are wiped clean of these.

The body surviving + part of a soul is not death. For death the body needs to die. Also if that part of soul in there is not ours then basically we would have a new start with a new WoL. Our character with all the memories and adventures would be death. And I am quite sure that a lot of people (especially those that RP) would not want to suddenly start over new with a new character because all of what the character has been throught, all the emotions they feel, all the PTSD they have and more is what makes this WoL our character. Strip that away and even if the body remains the same (which imo would not make sense if they died) it would still not be that character anymore. And I dont know why the story should go that way.

Honestly I cant even see our characters going grand theft auto on someone else body as it is.

Cause head cannon not counting I highly doubt they would write a scenario where we become the Tale of the Body Thief. It's possible if they do a WoL dies scenario it will either be the definite end of the game or a they faked their death to throw people off their tail and go into hiding.

That too. The WoL whose soul shards we have also died at each calamity without coming back. Our own WoL died in the bad future and did not come back either.

And since this is a MMO our death at the end of the story could imo also just happen if they decide to stop the service right afterwards. Because even without new big MSQ story an MMO can continue to go on. So we do need a character. And I am not sure if people would be happy to play if it just resets the story to somehwere before that happens to do more stuff.