Burnt out of the healer BS

[Billythepancake]

The saddest part about all of this? I’m already seeing people telling others to not complain as changes will be made in 6.0.

Lmao. "Why complain, there's a slight chance in 2 years the class could change for the better"

[Yuyuka3]

Lmao. "Why complain, there's a slight chance in 2 years the class could change for the better"

Well, welcome to what people told WHM for 4 years. Feels bad going through that bs, doesn't it?

Doesn't mean, as I said, nothing has to change for AST, but jfc, the double standard if something negatively impacts WHM vs. AST/SCH...

[Miiu]

Fun fact:
A SCH or AST providing no pDPS because they need to heal full time still provides more DPS to the group than a WHM providing no pDPS because they need to heal full time. Why? Because the WHM doesn't have ANY DPS utility outside their own DPS, in contrast to AST and SCH who do provide some. Also, from my experience, a SCH got a far easier time upholding their DPS in healing intensive parties than a WHM does. Because it's as Exiled_Tonberry says, almost everything WHM does is tied to the GCD. It's at a point where I struggle to even find anything to weave into a Lily or Regen at times because it feels like there simply aren't enough options. That's why I think at least Misery should be taken off the GCD...

Yes, AST needs to be pushed a little, they really are a bit behind the others. But anyone believing SCH needs a massive buff, as I've seen people claim, needs to get their heads checked. As do people who think adding a second DoT will massively, magically make healer DPS more engaging.

While the things you say are definitely not wrong. Under those exact conditions sch would bring more rdps then a whm. But realistically how often does this really happen unless the healer decides to not use dps spells?
Also I am not fully sure I agree with whm having a difficult time to keep up a steady dps. I have healed every fight in this expansion as a SCH, AST and WHM. Keeping up with dps around 4k on WHM seemed really easy compared to the other jobs even in fights where people needed "constant" rezzes or saves.

But even so don't get me wrong I am not advocating for WHMs to get nerfed. And I am not for SCH getting massive buffs. From a healing standpoint they're more than fine. Boring? Yes. But weak? Heck no.
AST is the only healer who is functional but still gutted from what the class was before on top of a now ruined identity.

[Allooutrick]

So far, I'm finding white mage enjoyable, holy spam aside. Scholar feels a bit dull to dps with. Keep in mind my scholar is in the 50s so combat so far is miasma, broil, broil, broil.

I dont think healers need full rotations but another skill or two to give the player something to consider using would do wonders. Like giving scholar a target aoe heal (similar to cure 3) that harms enemies in the effect could be a good move.

[Trunks]

While the things you say are definitely not wrong. Under those exact conditions sch would bring more rdps then a whm. But realistically how often does this really happen unless the healer decides to not use dps spells?

What an interesting question. It happens all the time, because that is the core mechanic of WHM: deciding whether to use a DPS spell or a healing spell.

So the answer is that it is already happening. At the 75th percentile on Titan, WHM averages a 358 pDPS advantage over SCH; raid DPS at the same level is around 56k. So WHM's pDPS advantage is about 0.64% of rDPS. Surprise! That's half of what the gap is on Innocence, which is what everyone has been using as the reference point when arguing for SCH buffs. And this is a story mode raid.

[Jerichai]

Well, welcome to what people told WHM for 4 years. Feels bad going through that bs, doesn't it?

Doesn't mean, as I said, nothing has to change for AST, but jfc, the double standard if something negatively impacts WHM vs. AST/SCH...

WHM need to stop having a victim complex...I swear to god...

Look, I get that WHM has had a tough road over the years. But the answer is not for one healer to reign supreme. It’s perfectly fine for WHM to be kind of pDPS if they’re not going to get a rDPS utility. But at the same time, the design goal should be to make ALL of the healers compelling choices. And this means ensuring that each healer’s combined personal and raid DPS contribution is similar enough across the three.

[Avenger]

Maybe WHM gets terrible at lv80 but it seems fine so far, probably better than SB.

[TankHunter678]

Fun fact:
A SCH or AST providing no pDPS because they need to heal full time still provides more DPS to the group than a WHM providing no pDPS because they need to heal full time. Why? Because the WHM doesn't have ANY DPS utility outside their own DPS, in contrast to AST and SCH who do provide some. Also, from my experience, a SCH got a far easier time upholding their DPS in healing intensive parties than a WHM does. Because it's as Exiled_Tonberry says, almost everything WHM does is tied to the GCD. It's at a point where I struggle to even find anything to weave into a Lily or Regen at times because it feels like there simply aren't enough options. That's why I think at least Misery should be taken off the GCD...

Yes, AST needs to be pushed a little, they really are a bit behind the others. But anyone believing SCH needs a massive buff, as I've seen people claim, needs to get their heads checked. As do people who think adding a second DoT will massively, magically make healer DPS more engaging.

Doubtful as far as AST is concerned. The reason being is that an AST healing full time has no time for cards and with no time for cards means not only is their pDPS tanking the floor so is the rDPS buffs they provide and they have to spend twice as many GCDs to achieve similar effectiveness to a WHM spending one GCD.

Whereas WHM has the throughput to create moments where it can throw in DPS, not to mention it has a lot more high power emergency options then AST does. It takes a lot to prevent a WHM from being able to throw out DPS.

[Yuyuka3]

WHM need to stop having a victim complex...I swear to god...

Look, I get that WHM has had a tough road over the years. But the answer is not for one healer to reign supreme. It’s perfectly fine for WHM to be kind of pDPS if they’re not going to get a rDPS utility. But at the same time, the design goal should be to make ALL of the healers compelling choices. And this means ensuring that each healer’s combined personal and raid DPS contribution is similar enough across the three.

Victim complex, my ass... so my experiences over the past few years mean nothing, yes?
I was told "WHM is fine!" when we had our job identity utterly destroyed in HW, or when we lost half of our toolkit in StB, either to the damned role skill system or forever (or to get the same skill handed back with a shiny new animation and a bow on top...). We most definitely weren't fine. We had none of our big issues fixed, and people only ever considered a WHM for the first few weeks of a raid content (and not even then during the last) before putting them back on a shelf. I was told "it's just QoL, stop complaining!" when AST got their cast-time buff that pushed them past WHM pDPS, which caused them to not even be considered for progress during the last raid tier in many cases. People tried to outright bully me into playing AST because it was just plain better.

THAT is what I mean by double standard. You people only care if YOU are the ones negatively impacted; if WHM is, who even gives a flying f**k, it's just WHM anyway.

BTW, I was also one of the people who always said, and still says, healers should be balanced and none of them should stand on top of the others. I don't want any of them to lag behind, I want them on part. Meaning that right now, AST needs a bit of love, while the balance between WHM and SCH is rather good, like it or not. Also, you conveniently seem to forget that WHM is still pretty immobile when it comes to DPS and will be the one out of the three dropping the most DPS GCDs for healing, lowering their raid contribution significantly, while SCH and AST got something else they can do to contribute. SCH also, as I said before, got a far easier time holding up their DPS due to their many instant oGCD heals compared to WHM who almost always needs to drop DPS for healing, meaning they will close the gap in harder content. So content that is not p**s-easy Primals like we saw so far. You already feel the DPS drop going into normal Eden; you will feel it even more in Savage.

Also, sorry that YOU hate the new SCH, but I personally don't think it feels as bad as you make it out to be, and I literally just a few moments ago had someone asking me why the heck people claim SCH feels bad, since it doesn't. That person is a HC-raider who will also play SCH in savage and ultimate, and did so before. So, sucks that you don't like what they did, but you know, others do; and they did the same with WHM several times now and people like you never batted an eye. Which is why it feels like a slap in the face coupled with a knee to the groin reading you complain now and jumping down everyone's throats for not agreeing. The very same people who told WHMs to 'stop whining' for years now are now complaining about the same stuff as before... well, maybe had you showed some compassion in the past, you might get some back now.

[Billythepancake]

BTW, I was also one of the people who always said, and still says, healers should be balanced and none of them should stand on top of the others. I don't want any of them to lag behind, I want them on part. Meaning that right now, AST needs a bit of love, while the balance between WHM and SCH is rather good, like it or not.

So instead of bringing up the class lagging behind to the standards of the other healers, it's better to balance by making the others worse? So AST doesnt need potency buffs, instead WHM/SCH should be nerfed until they're at AST's level, according to balance.

Glad to see your friend likes new SCH, but I've met people, of all skill levels, that cant stand scholar, look at all the threads on here, and must people have the same complaints. We're not even upset over effectiveness or about being nerfed, just what we HAVE to do. I dont know who wants to spam 1 button all day, but most people I know like to press several buttons.