SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Barraind]

He tweeted about death threats but never actually gave any evidence of such after he has been asked to do so, also he just deleted this tweet where he wrote down about it.

Do you really believe in his lies?

I have no doubt he got death threats from a youtube video, because you get death threats from saner people than the hardcore MMO crowd for saying less offensive things about topics like the weather, the best building material for a shed, the frequency at which you should change an air filter, and what the sell by date on food means.


People are getting death threats and doxxing attempts on their families for REPORTING NEWS TOPICS on youtube. Its a cesspool.

[Xtrasweettea]

Good job on illustrating my point.
First, that someone in the party was required to Heal in some capacity. In this case, you on your RDM. Every outgoing heal you had slowed the run down.
Second, you were reduced to a single pull only snail pace.

Now recreate that scenario in your head, but answer me this: How far would you have gotten if you hadn't taken over the role of Healer?

And to make sure you understand what I'm saying, The entire point of the challenge was to demonstrate that a Healer in the party contributes to the success and speed of the run without ever casting a damage dealing spell.

If I didn't step in to heal, it would have been just a little dicier, but doable. Of course, DRK had its own healing tools as well. Do you want me to recreate this scenario without DRK using abilities like Abyssal Drain and Soul Eater as well?

Also, 20 minutes = snails pace? That's pretty good for basically three strangers adjusting.

And you completely missed what my scenario painted for you. If I am able to DPS and heal on RDM, it means that I had time to DPS without worrying about the tank sampling some fine Hell's Lid dirt. RDM doesn't have regens, it doesn't have shields, it doesn't have oCGD heals. So we are talking about raw heals that cost a good amount of MP. All I did is prove that for most of that dungeon, that someone on a Healer job is not necessary.


I can guarantee that people would rather take me on RDM than have a Healer that just heals and idles.

[Lyris-Lyanther]

People die sometimes. Mechanics are easy to miss even if you have some familiarity with them from other dungeons. I get the side of the argument that Healers should DPS to make things go faster, but if they are keeping people healed and no one is dying, I'm not going to gripe that they aren't damaging and I am not going to vote to kick them either. For some people, maybe they are doing a new role or just came back from time off the game. Maybe they aren't comfortable with the loadout or the resource management yet, but still need to do and clear content to progress.

If you are looking for a quicker run and you are pugging the dungeon, then that is your issue. Join a FC or get some of your current FC members to form a group with you. I get that runs can take forever sometimes, but insisting others play their character to the same expectations you would play them is again a "you" issue. If you are upset enough to kick them for it or berate them then it is clear that you do not care about their enjoyment or play style so why should they care about yours? There are already tools out there to narrow your search for content clears like Group Finder, Free companies etc. Complaining about how others play when you matched with them because you didn't use those other tools (or people weren't available in them) seems more about you wanting to be catered to and less about what someone else is doing.

Some people may not be as uber as you are in a certain role, but so what? Its a game to be played and enjoyed. Just because you may have a ton of experience in the runs/dungeons doesn't mean someone else does. And approaching it in a "you need to play this way or else" manner does not help anything get better and just makes the community more toxic. I was bad once, I'm sure there are things I am still bad at. Others took the time to speak to me like a person, not an employee and I learned some things along the way. Struggling doesn't mean they aren't trying..

[Saintly]

All SE has to do is to become less strict when it comes to "harassment" and let the community police it self.

At the moment we are not only forbidden to point anything out no matter how ridiculous it is, like a SAM doing the least DPS in a party for example.
We cant even tell someone to use X or do Y cause the special snowflake might see it as a form of harassment and report you to the trigger happy GMs.

[Eriane_Elis]

I agree, they need a training facility to help improve player skills.

It could be a list of different things to improve.
> Stack mechanics
> Avoidance / dodging (a continuous barrage of random line AOE to dodge)
> AOE markers
> Doritos
> Keeping aggro
> Being a crazy healer
> the list goes on and on...

Something that just pushes people to their limit, even people that are used to savage content could benefit the higher levels of training. It could even have a continuous mode to just keep going until you're tired or die. Leaderboards could even be added to make people more excited about it.

[Hawklaser]

I would not get upset. I might just laugh, and be like well we can't do this. I will try a new group later.

At the end of the day, I'm happy if people enjoying the game, even if it takes a little bit longer.

Could you laugh it off thousands of times though?

While the above situation would be a rarity for you, and easy to laugh off a few times,
the equivalent of it for better players happens much more often and it can get very frustrating.

They don't want to impede on your fun, but they also would like you to respect their right to fun as well. This might mean you have to meet us all half way when the game does force you into group content, and use some of the skills you don't like or find clunky.

As Nims said, it is a two way street, the vast majority of people in the middle are pretty flexible. Those who refuse to budge for the sake of the group are the ones people get upset with. That goes for both the super try-hard that isn't happy if the dungeon isn't done in 30 seconds or less, or the person who doesn't care if they are sinking the Titanic so long as they are having fun.

So for the sake of everyone's fun, could you respect the bit of fun everyone else agreed to sacrifice when they queue up using the duty finder tool by also sacrificing a little bit of your own?

If you don't think we agree to sacrifice a little bit of fun when we use the tool, its actually a big part of the price we pay to save the time of putting the group together by getting random people.

[Alucard135]

Because you have no say in it? You used a convenience tool for the system to make you a group. Your fun being ruined for my own is not going to make me lose sleep. You losing time, again same. I don't have this problem because they add a trust system I used now and can go at my own pace. But what I am stating is that bad players being bad players is ok in my book as long as they are having fun. If taking longer to do something is that much of a problem. I would make friends and do premade groups. You have that option.



This is a war that you can't win. You can't force people to play better. I have plenty friends who don't care how bad they play, and have tons of fun even being bad. I respect that.

Making content harder won't make them play better. It will just mean your time gets more wasted when they join your group.

Can't say I disagree with this. Making MSQ stuff harder will only make me do it through PF just to avoid traps.

But one way I think that might help, is if they added rewards that everyone wants to harder content. As of now, you only get higher level gear/weapons or a mount with an abysmal drop rate. So what do bad players do? wait for it to be unsynced or when the ilvl is high that they can get away from messing up mechanics. And that's mostly done for EX trials, not the raids. For savage raids, they really don't care about being BiS and they already get similar gear for glamour from normal raids but undyeable (there was a thread long ago asking to make them dyeable). And if they really wanted that dyeable gear, they'd do it unsynced.

Eureka is the best example of how reward can get people to do something and put in the effort (I'm not arguing if Eureka is good or bad here lol). But, there are those that felt they were forced to it because they really wanted that relic, glamour, hairstyle, minion, mount etc. No one forced them to go through Eureka, but they did. Because they wanted those rewards. Now imagine if Eureka actually had challenge to it? You now have BA. Where those that really wanted Ozma mount put in the effort to get it.

So long story short, put good incentivising rewards in harder side content that would make someone actually want to learn and do it.

[Nedkel]

No, a twitch streamer (Scottzone) slightly criticized Eden (he over all enjoys FFXIV) and was sent a death threat that he actually showed on stream....then got a 30 day ban for it. However the hate over Lazypeon's video is just as valid too. There was a thread made here about it (I mean why?) and then this community went there and started harassing him.

I love Archeage, many people don't. I'd never go out of my way to attack someone that doesn't like Archeage.

One troll giving him a death treats makes up opinion on the entire game community? lol
Try to criticize WoW classic saying its bad in the yt video, and tell us how that turned out. xD

[Nims]

One troll giving him a death treats makes up opinion on the entire game community? lol
Try to criticize WoW classic saying its bad in the yt video, and tell us how that turned out. xD

So because WoW people do it that makes it okay? Not following the logic.

Plus I talk crap on WoW constantly, it's an awful game and I don't understand how it ever got popular. I don't receive nearly as much hate as I do when I call this game a snooze fest after 3 weeks.

Also nice way to soften it up by going "Oh one troll..." it needs to be none, it's a freaking themepark MMO.

Playerbase calls the devs transphobic because gender locked races (something common in Asian mmos)
Playerbase sends death threats to two different streamers.
Player makes a thread asking for people to get banned because they're doing constant emotes around them.
Player made a threat showing someone telling him to "kill himself" because he gave tips on how to properly tank in a nice way.
Streamer trash talks healer, then kicks him because the healer used holy and then gets support from the rest of the playerbase.

Most of this was all in like the last week or two?

GCBTW

[Wavaryen]

Could you laugh it off thousands of times though?

While the above situation would be a rarity for you, and easy to laugh off a few times,
the equivalent of it for better players happens much more often and it can get very frustrating.

They don't want to impede on your fun, but they also would like you to respect their right to fun as well. This might mean you have to meet us all half way when the game does force you into group content, and use some of the skills you don't like or find clunky.

As Nims said, it is a two way street, the vast majority of people in the middle are pretty flexible. Those who refuse to budge for the sake of the group are the ones people get upset with. That goes for both the super try-hard that isn't happy if the dungeon isn't done in 30 seconds or less, or the person who doesn't care if they are sinking the Titanic so long as they are having fun.

So for the sake of everyone's fun, could you respect the bit of fun everyone else agreed to sacrifice when they queue up using the duty finder tool by also sacrificing a little bit of your own?

If you don't think we agree to sacrifice a little bit of fun when we use the tool, its actually a big part of the price we pay to save the time of putting the group together by getting random people.

See that is a tough thing to ask here is why.

I mean that sounds fair, but truth be told it is just not how some players think or want to play.


If you are asking me, I would not be in your groups at all. Myself, I know my limits and just don't have fun doing group content. If I've soloed most of the time having fun in my own way, and being forced to group to keep going with the story. I've been playing my fun way for so long, trying to do it a way I don't enjoy would just make me a worse dps .


But like I said I'm a bad example. I'm very laid back and accept things how they are. I don't think your views are wrong, I just accept things how they are and how people are. I got really no right to ask players to play better.

Asking for players to play better is pointless, and it is just more stress than it is worth I feel if you care about that sort of thing.

Asking for the game to be harder, will just end up wasting your time even more. It won't force players to play better.


I just don't see the point of that.