SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Nims]

Or do like every other MMO on the market does and allow players to do so without getting banned.

FFXIV has the largest population of absolutely awful players and is the only MMO that I know of ( I could be wrong feel free to correct me) that doesn't openly allow parsers, people to correct each other for better gameplay, and or simply removing people without like a 2 hour cool down.

There's only so much a game and or the developers can do to better people without forcing things on other people and annoying them. This is just simply where the community steps in but that's wrong for some reason.

[Krojack]

Or do like every other MMO on the market does and allow players to do so without getting banned.

FFXIV has the largest population of absolutely awful players and is the only MMO that I know of ( I could be wrong feel free to correct me) that doesn't openly allow parsers, people to correct each other for better gameplay, and or simply removing people without like a 2 hour cool down.

There's only so much a game and or the developers can do to better people without forcing things on other people and annoying them. This is just simply where the community steps in but that's wrong for some reason.

I'm on board with the group that thinks parsers would in fact make the community more toxic over all. It would turn into a "must have > X dps else get kicked" or just the normal "You're bad vote kick" in dungeons.

What SE could do it add a built-in personal parser that shows just your DPS (and HPS if on a healer) then after the fight compare your numbers to others of your job with the same average ilvl gear. If you're on Monk and have average ilvl 440 and your DPS is 4,000 less that the the average 440 ilvl Monk you could see this. It would give you an idea that you're doing something wrong and should do some reading up on your class.

[Granyala]

What SE could do it add a built-in personal parser that shows just your DPS (and HPS if on a healer) then after the fight compare your numbers to others of your job with the same average ilvl gear. If you're on Monk and have average ilvl 440 and your DPS is 4,000 less that the the average 440 ilvl Monk you could see this. It would give you an idea that you're doing something wrong and should do some reading up on your class.

To be blunt: when I do raid log analysis, raw DPS/HPS are the least interesting values of the equation.
Yeah sure, they can serve as a quick filter to see if sth went wrong that I didn't immediately notice during the fight but it's the detailed analysis that nets the actual information on WHAT I did wrong.

Showing players their personal DPS w/o further data is useless.

As for parsers making a community more toxic: I see no difference between randoms in WoW and randoms in FF-XIV. One with a parser, the other without. I played both games for many (too many) years.

You do the math.

[Nims]

Snip

None of that is being toxic though and this is coming from someone that plays this game casually (alot of you all need to play games like Archeage and Bdo to see what being toxic truly is), people wanting to play with people of a similar playstyle is not toxic. What you're saying can already technically be done now, people already make PFs with x requirements as well.

People aren't going to show their numbers and they aren't going to care because no one but them can see it. Logically anyone constantly eating mechanics has to know their dps is low but they don't care because people can't do anything about it without them getting banned.

[Misutoraru]

None of that is being toxic though and this is coming from someone that plays this game casually (alot of you all need to play games like Archeage and Bdo to see what being toxic truly is), people wanting to play with people of a similar playstyle is not toxic. What you're saying can already technically be done now, people already make PFs with x requirements as well.

People aren't going to show their numbers and they aren't going to care because no one but them can see it. Logically anyone constantly eating mechanics has to know their dps is low but they don't care because people can't do anything about it without them getting banned.

She is not entirely wrong, I have came from an MMO where community think number mean everything, and the bigger the number the more persuasive they are.
Eventually it become if you do not reach XXX you are not able to join the party.

The difference here now in PF, we set requirement only for like know mechanics, content cleared, ilv...etc
parsers is a two edge sword, it help people improve so as intensified toxicity. Just like a knife, it could be use to help increasing effort of jobs but so could turn into tool for killing.

I was never against parsers until I know how destructive it could be in wrong use, with the current stance on parsers, there are no need to be lift up the ban. Whoever want to use it can still use it.

Tool is not the issue, but the people use it wrongly, looking at pure number rather than fight detail. Yeah, serious raider know how to use it properly, but if you open up the gate, even aunts Bessie could use it. So why not just keep it the way it is, serious raider still able to use it and discuss it privately stop ppl who use it wrongly away from it, at least publicly

[Nims]

@Misutoraru (on mobile can’t reply with quote for some odd reason) again wanting people to push x numbers in your own created static or PF is NOT toxic in even the slightest bit.

There’s not really much to look at in these fights, they aren’t super depth.

People with common sense knows that during movement heavy fights casters might have lower dps during that movement heavy phase.

People with common sense knows that the more support geared classed aren’t going to have the highest dps cause it makes up with utility.

I mean it’s not like there’s actual raids where with super trash mobs and the mages have to go off to the side to CC or aoe those mobs down so I don’t understand your point honestly.

Also anything can hurt anyone at any time, better ban everything.

[Misutoraru]

@Misutoraru (on mobile can’t reply with quote for some odd reason) again wanting people to push x numbers in your own created static or PF is NOT toxic in even the slightest bit.

There’s not really much to look at in these fights, they aren’t super depth.

People with common sense knows that during movement heavy fights casters might have lower dps during that movement heavy phase.

People with common sense knows that the more support geared classed aren’t going to have the highest dps cause it makes up with utility.

I mean it’s not like there’s actual raids where with super trash mobs and the mages have to go off to the side to CC or aoe those mobs down so I don’t understand your point honestly.

Also anything can hurt anyone at any time, better ban everything.

pushing X number for a fight is not toxic, i agree

but when the community turn into comparing who have bigger number and when it use as a value to judge what someone say or type, it is one of the most toxic thing could be. One could have issue with a fight and unable to push high number but willing to learn and know every single bit of mechanics. One could have high number but love using number as harassment. This is what I have experienced in some MMO, and I dont want to see FFXIV turn into such thing

I am not trying to convince you, and I am quite sure I wont be convince by you. just sharing the thought this is a tool which bring good and bad into us, and it is how each of us value the good and the bad. in my case I see the bad outweight the good, just like we got gun ban in many countries

[Nims]

Snip

No one does that though, I've played almost every MMO out. No one uses someone's dps as a value to judge them, UNLESS they're trying to make guides on how to play a class. If you can't properly play your class then no, you shouldn't teach people or act as if you know. Again that's just simply not toxic, that's common sense.

I dont want to see FFXIV turn into such thing

FFXIV will never be harsh in that way simply because there's no competition here. People are still going to raid with who they want, I've been in plenty of statics with underperforming dps but they hit mechanics.

People always mention how they don't want this community to be "toxic" as if it isn't already (while using the word toxic wrong). Real toxicity is not kicking someone or not wanting to raid with someone that doesn't know their super easy class. It's sending death threats to streamers for criticizing Eden (look it up). Or insulting people because they don't care about the lore (that's on these forums). Allowing the community to openly say "we don't want under performing dps" isn't going to change anything.

[Loli]

Was just in Eden with a healer that only wanted to look pretty bad healer during major damage spikes.

I been playing healer ever since launch, if I can keep a good DPS uptime, and properly heal the party, basically any healer should be able to do the same. It's a hassle because it's less damage regardless, why should they carry you for a healer that can do both.


But you can't make players do something they don't wanna do, bad players will be exactly that sadly.

[Skyskip]

I definitely think it might be worth adding a tutorial mode on all the mechanic icons in the game. Not all of them are immediately intuitive, and there are some mechanics that only show up in a handful of fights, making it not immediately obvious what you're meant to do during them.

Sure most people might ignore this mode, but I'd be thankful for it. Being told 'oh this is just [insert ex trial's mechanic here] thing' isn't really enough to help me learn what it does.