Have Tanks been dumbed down to much?

[EpicOverlord85]

The reason I push dpsing as a tank is because after tanking duties the only way to optimize yourself as a tank is to push dps.

If I just tanked I would literally just be sitting there auto attacking. That sounds boring.

What’s frustrating is that there really isn’t anything to optimize as a DRK anymore as far as DPS goes which makes me sad.

[RadicalPesto]

There are 2 categories of people in this thread:
1. People who like dpsing and they think tanks this expansion are fun.
2. People like tanking and they think tanks this expansion are not fun (they are boring, dumbed down etc.)

My only question to the 1st category of people is why do you play a tank instead of dps?

If you feel getting rid of a combo chain most tanks used once a fight makes such a huge difference and makes tanks not tanks you probably were overusing the aggro combo to begin with. You know what's great about Shadowbringers tanks? Paladin can actually pull now and isn't forced to be perpetual off-tank.

[Noitems]

I feel the goal for SHB was to make them easier for everyone to understand now as it's like a fresh clean slate. Hopefully in the future they can get them differed enough so DRK doesn't feel like diet WAR.

GNB is probably the closest to something from Stormblood with the Continuation combo being it's main niche, but at the end of the day it's very simply build gauge and spend.

I will give them credit at least for WAR that Nascent Flash is very fun to use, I just wish it lasted for about two seconds longer. It's something WAR needed for a long time and giving your partner back HP from Inner Chaos crits is juicy.

[Deceptus]

Sadly most jobs have been.

[Juanpierre]

I currently have WAR and PLD leveled to 80. I've farmed all the Ex trials on WAR. Just finished PLD.

My thoughts on these two jobs is they play pretty different and do not feel "homogenized." WAR is for the most part a priority-based job. PLD is a rotational job. I enjoy both (though I lean towards priority-based).

I DO agree that WAR can feel "dumbed down" in the sense that they have a lower amount of abilities and have stretches of repetition. I like the Inner Chaos mechanic, but it feels like the job could have used one more new ability. My enjoyment of the job comes from optimizing gauge management. For me, WAR is enjoyable on brand new content because I can focus on the content with less thought on my job mechanics.

I will probably switch to PLD after the first week of savage (waiting to see job changes first). The fun with PLD is managing the rotation in an optimal way. I like the two (and a half) parts to the rotation. Feels fluid to me. I really enjoy trying to keep the 63 second rotation going with little downtime and planning out phases in fights.

Regarding tanking overall, I find it engaging. I have to manage my defensive cooldowns in smart ways. I have to think through boss placement to increase uptime for melee dps. And I have to push my dps. I LOVE that this game pushes all jobs to dps. Having to optimize rotations/priorities is EVERYONE's job. Tank/healer/dps. If a tank is not managing their CDs wisely WHILE pumping out as much damage as possible, then they are not helping the team as the job is intended. You are given two basic tools: defensive CDs and damaging abilities. Optimizing both is your job, and for me it is a joy.

So yeah, I like tanking.

[Lyth]

Mitigation and positioning are always fight specific. I can't judge the "core" elements of tanking without having an actual fight to compare them up against (i.e. one in which failing to mitigate causes you to die).

I like that every tank has a short recast mitigation cooldown to work with. This allows for interesting fight design with lots of little things to mitigate while maintaining your dps rotation. It gives TBN truly a chance to shine.

I think a lot of people don't actually know what they want when it comes to tank design. People will happily complain when a job like DRK doesn't follow a fixed strict rotation like GNB or PLD and instead forces you to make decisions based on resource levels on the fly. But in the same breath, they'll complain that everything is too "homogenised". And when you look at their actual performance on the present raid content, it just doesn't match up to their claims.

DRK is soooo easy, which is why you switched to GNB's oh so complex fixed 30 second rotation. But yet you're only capable of reaching one standard deviation below the mean on the job (or haven't even levelled the job to 80). You'd think that everyone posting here is a god tier tank. It just doesn't add up when you match the claims to actual performance.

[Renato]

I've gotten PLD to lv80, DRK to 76 and GNB to 71 so far.

I feel that tanks have been dumbed down a bit. Pulls have been reduced down to just using your AoE combo with no risk/worry of TP drainage and cooldowns for mitigation. DRK seems to be the most basic to me with it's single target rotation. It's all about managing MP while PLD seems to basically have become a caster/melee job with the focus on your Requiescat, Holy Spirit and Confitieor finisher.

GNB so far actually does feel like a DPS job. It's rotation is pretty involved. At least it feels like that at the point that I'm at. Continuation makes everything flow pretty well but I find it kind of rough sometimes having to focus on tanking, your damage rotation, watching your cooldowns and maintaining DoTs and Powder Bullets and Damage mititgation. It feels like a mix of old MCH and DRG to me sometimes. It's very busy.

I'm trying to find the right one for me but I can't decide. DRK has always been my go to but it feels like HW's version in a sense due to the fact that managing MP is really annoying and makes it feel sort of slow and clunky. It's not bad, but it feels like it's a lot of downtime during fights due to no MP which means you don't have access to all your attacks. PLD's concentration on casting is sort of a turnoff for me as I hate casting jobs. And GNB is a cool ass job but man is it a lot going on. I'm considering giving WAR a try this expansion.

[Booden]

The reason I push dpsing as a tank is because after tanking duties the only way to optimize yourself as a tank is to push dps.

If I just tanked I would literally just be sitting there auto attacking. That sounds boring.

Technically you could also not even auto attack, so long as you use provoke on cooldown and push your mitigation buttons. The 0 tank dps dream might not be dead! lol

[ZellosWilder]

This is a general reminder to all tanks. We did get a new defensive cooldowns and it's called Arm's Length. Please don't over look using it on mass pulls in dungeons. Your healers will appreciate it.

While I agree with u with Arm's Length and I do use them on big pulls in dungeons for the slow effect but it's not really useful on bosses or on ex/savage fights as they resist it although I use it for the knockback effect which I don't really count as a defensive skill so it can easily be overlooked especially since PLD always had a anti knockback/pull in skill called "tempered will" which was later removed getting it back doesn't feel new to me.

Also I said new defensive cooldowns meaning multiple cds, 1 that all tanks share with all melee dps and ranged dps isn't really a new tank skill.

[Anienai]

Have Tanks been dumbed down to much?

Only when wall pulling and not using CDs or standing in the orange buffs.