Feedback on SCH Design in Shadowbringers

[Alphras]

8. Yoshi in a recent Live Letter made a statement to the effect that co-healers were always picking up the slack for scholars in Stormblood, because scholars were too focused on DPSing. I bring this up because the 5.0 scholar changes appear to be consistent with Yoshi's statement - however, that statement has absolutely NO grounding in reality and I find it very odd to let such a myth shape job design decisions (if in fact they did). In actuality, scholars in Stormblood often did significantly MORE healing than their co-healer, due to the fact that it cost them almost nothing to access a powerful selection of healing tools on short cooldowns - Whispering Dawn cost literally nothing, while Indomitability cost them an Energy Drain (150 Potency) - meanwhile, WHM would have to sacrifice an entire GCD to do the same amount of healing, which amounts to much more than a 150 potency loss. Even if all abilities were on cooldown so that a GCD heal was required, the scholar would normally be the one doing it, because their GCD is worth less damage than a WHM's GCD, with Broil being less potency than Stone. So the truth is, SCH was the one picking up the slack for WHM, not the other way around (at least in a group that knew how to play effectively). Now in Shadowbringers, Scholar's healing throughput has become ludicrously high, perhaps to compensate for an issue that didn't exist in the first place, and I cannot help but ask why the job design has headed in this direction.

Do you know where he said that exactly? If that is true, the grasp Square has of the healers is worse than I thought.

[Aqua150]

Do you know where he said that exactly? If that is true, the grasp Square has of the healers is worse than I thought.

I went back and checked the Live Letter and it looks like I had the quote slightly wrong, but it doesn't really change my point. The exact quote of his official translator is the following:

"With the scholar, they typically handled applying barriers, mostly, and they didn't really have the direct capabilities of healing spells. So the responsibility of healing tended to go to other healer jobs. Now, with the addition of more healing spells, now we're sharing the responsibility so it's not just the other jobs, but the scholar is now more able to heal so you can depend on each other."

Source: https://youtu.be/rewM-Z9bGhA?t=7993

I edited my original post to more accurately reflect the fact that Yoshi's statement was more about SCH's barriers than it was about DPS. Either way, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the way healers work together in reality and raises the same concerns regarding design choices in Shadowbringers.

[Eloah]

I went back and checked the Live Letter and it looks like I had the quote slightly wrong, but it doesn't really change my point. The exact quote of his official translator is the following:

"With the scholar, they typically handled applying barriers, mostly, and they didn't really have the direct capabilities of healing spells. So the responsibility of healing tended to go to other healer jobs. Now, with the addition of more healing spells, now we're sharing the responsibility so it's not just the other jobs, but the scholar is now more able to heal so you can depend on each other."

Source: https://youtu.be/rewM-Z9bGhA?t=7993

I edited my original post to more accurately reflect the fact that Yoshi's statement was more about SCH's barriers than it was about DPS. Either way, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the way healers work together in reality and raises the same concerns regarding design choices in Shadowbringers.

See, this is the issue that I dont think SE realizes they created and it sorta plays into a post you made a little ways down the line...

I don't agree that a spammable oGCD damage ability would be misplaced - SCH currently has the simplest DPS kit to manage, with only 1 DOT and 1 nuke. WHM and AST do have extra things to do in addition to those - Assize, Afflatus Misery, Earthly Star and Cards (Okay, I guess SCH has Chain Stratagem, but "press this button once every 2 minutes" hardly counts as something to manage and is by far the least engaging of all the healer DPS abilities), so I see no reason why SCH couldn't have something more to think about as well. While the WHM and AST skills I mentioned may not be spammable, I don't see that being a problem - I view "spammable" versus "unspammable" as simply being a way to differentiate the flavour of the three classes.

SCH's kit worked because everything functioned as a whole, the GCD skills the oGCD skill and the pet. But SE wanted SCHs themselves to heal more so they nerfed the pet, then they added more "SCH" heals. But all of the new heals are basically pet related and oGCD heals. SE can't expect SCHs to focus more on healing if you nerf part of their kit and give them unspammable heals. What if we have that one tank who thinks they are invincible, and some do. That's part of the main issue, SCH only has 'one' spammable heal, Physick. Spamming skills is not ideal ever, but at certain times, it is needed. But SCHs only have 3 heals that are on the GCD and 2 are shields. You cant even Emergency Tactics them since the buff vanishes after a use. Maybe if ET was changed to function like Planery Indulgence, that might negate some of the problem. And another thing is the Fey Gauge, what's the point of having skills to use ot if the skills are on lengthy CDs or the gauge takes forever to build up. Of the 2 tacked on gauges for the Healers SCHs felt more "natural" but it was still sorta lackluster, but Lilies are more engaging now, and that's saying something.

[KDSilver]

Do you know where he said that exactly? If that is true, the grasp Square has of the healers is worse than I thought.

Live letter of the combat system update in may if i remember well.
But he truly stated that indeed.