The "Wow Refugee's" impact on the FFXIV Community?

[ElciaDeiLinus]

None of this is true.

Blaming esport-mentality for the injection of toxicity is a hypothesis and nothing more.

Additionally, you do not speak for everyone. Avoid generalizing.

Yet it's pretty consistent that games which revolve around esports have extremely toxic communities. To call everything she's said a lie when most people have the same experiences, is pretty disingenuous. As a WoW refugee myself, one of the biggest black marks on the game has always been the community, for many of the reasons she's listed.

If there is a sizable number of players coming here from WoW, you should be concerned. That doesn't mean we're all bad- nothing of the sort- but even just being here two months, I don't think I've had a single two month period where I've been treated this well by pugs in 15 years of playing WoW.

There's a big difference between being concerned, and being hostile- I think if I'd give advice to FFXIV players it'd be to keep doing what you're doing, kill them with kindness so to speak. Most people in general will try to change their behaviour to fit in; and those that don't stand out. Ideally, the WoW exodus will assimilate.

The absolute worst thing that can happen though is for toxic esport style behaviour to be permitted. If people are insulting teammates or trying to ruin someone else's enjoyment- report it. And that also means SE needs to do their part. Blizzard doesn't do this- just play Heroes of the Storm for a month or two and you'll see; constant games with AFKers, feeders, nastiness because they decided not to do anything about it, and the game utterly collapsed as a result.

[Typhoria]

Regarding some of the posts here, why is there a stigma against expecting people to have some basic ability to play the game moderately decent in group content? What's sad is that there is another post in General Discussion complaining about how inept the Trust NPCs are, instead of taking responsibility for the runs failing.

Adding to this, I know several people who are FF14 vets that regard people who use jump potions and fail mechanics as "WoW refugees." The elitism goes both ways.

[HWalsh]

Regarding some of the posts here, why is there a stigma against expecting people to have some basic ability to play the game moderately decent in group content? What's sad is that there is another post in General Discussion complaining about how inept the Trust NPCs are, instead of taking responsibility for the runs failing.

Adding to this, I know several people who are FF14 vets that regard people who use jump potions and fail mechanics as "WoW refugees." The elitism goes both ways.

There is s huge difference between "Basic ability to play the game moderately decent in group content" and what is actually going on.

There are logs now, there are people screaming at others to carry their own weight, even when the group is clearing content. There are people getting *really* upset with (and insta-kicking) people who have opted out of the log program.

Basic ability to play is simply avoiding the AoE spots on the ground and being able to use your general three hit combo while tossing in the occasional cool down. That is basic ability.

More advanced is generally what I do: (For single target)
Drop attack 1 in three hit combo chain A
Fight or Flight
Fortification
Attack Cooldown 1
Attack Cooldown 2 (all done within the first 2.5 seconds)
Attack 2 in combo chain A
Attack 3 in combo chain A
Switch to Attack 1 in combo chain B
Attack 2 in combo chain B
Attack 3 in combo chain B
Attack 1 in combo chain A
Fortification drops, hit 2nd damage mitigation
Attack 2 in combo chain A
Attack 3 in combo chain A
2nd damage mitigation drops, shieldtron 1
Fire Attack Cooldown 1 again
Etc...

That's way more than basic... I don't expect anyone else to do that.

This new breed? That is their baseline.

My baseline?

Dodge the AoEs
Do your basic 3 hit
That's it.

[Shurrikhan]

This new breed? That is their baseline.

My baseline?

Dodge the AoEs
Do your basic 3 hit
That's it.

I mean, that was my baseline, too. ...At level 30.

[HWalsh]

I mean, that was my baseline, too. ...At level 30.

1, ctrl+1, ctrl+2, 6, 7, 2, 3, 1, 2, ctrl+3, 1, shift+1, ctrl+5, 6

All while managing enemy positioning and dodging AoE areas.

- I have to use a freaking 12 button mouse, I do not expect that from others - I do that to better myself and myself only - I'm not going to look at someone else and say, "Bro do you even lift?"

[HWalsh]

Note: the missing buttons? All situational and not part of my basic rotation.

Again: Expecting that from anyone else is unfair.

[Avidria]

Note: the missing buttons? All situational and not part of my basic rotation.

Again: Expecting that from anyone else is unfair.

If the definition of basic you're using really is just dodging things and using your most basic combo, then man that is a low bar. It'll cut it maybe in dungeons, but actual endgame content? I don't expect people to be min/maxing and perfectly executing optimized rotations, but I do expect them to actually be using all of the tools available to them appropriately at least most of the time.

[Shurrikhan]

1, ctrl+1, ctrl+2, 6, 7, 2, 3, 1, 2, ctrl+3, 1, shift+1, ctrl+5, 6

All while managing enemy positioning and dodging AoE areas.

- I have to use a freaking 12 button mouse, I do not expect that from others - I do that to better myself and myself only - I'm not going to look at someone else and say, "Bro do you even lift?"

I do just fine with a left click, right click, and wheel. I don't have a single key I need to stretch to reach, either, outside of menu shortcuts. And let's not pretend WASD are somehow incompatible with doing this or frustrates the process in any significant way.

I'll admit, we have unnecessary button bloat and a held mod state would be appreciated (allowing you to bind Shift/Alt/Ctrl-WASD without pausing WASD movement when hitting Shift-1 or the like, since the state would be snapshotted), but unless you're dedicating core bind space to class-swapping, emotes, or macros, you shouldn't be running into any trouble here...

[HWalsh]

If the definition of basic you're using really is just dodging things and using your most basic combo, then man that is a low bar. It'll cut it maybe in dungeons, but actual endgame content? I don't expect people to be min/maxing and perfectly executing optimized rotations, but I do expect them to actually be using all of the tools available to them appropriately at least most of the time.

That is what basic means.
Basic means basic.

"Actually using all of the tools available to them appropriately at least most of the time" *is* min/maxing.

Side note:
I have tested this, by the way, the basic dodge three hit (depending if AoEing or Single Targeting) works for every dungeon so far 1-70.

[Hyrist]

Aside from the culture shock of jumping into game that's more story driven - I'm not concerned as much with the influx of WoW players. As other people have said before, we've been receiving players from WoW for years. We're just going to hear more of the same criticisms from that perspective on a game that's clearly not designed in a manner in which they are accustomed.

That's fine - those that wind up sticking around usually adapt and grow to understand the reasoning.

Conversations about skill expectations and results have been here since early the days of MMOs. I just roll my eyes at them and continue to play as comfortable for me. If that's not good enough for some players, I don't have to play with them. Their expectations are not my concern. Improvement should be self-motivated, not peer-pressured. If you're doing a roulette, you're rolling the dice. The gamble theme is implicit in its name.

Else-wise, host your own parties, roulette with friends, etc, etc. It's all been said before.