The "Wow Refugee's" impact on the FFXIV Community?

[Schan]

Yes, because you have empyrical data backing this 'stream' of WoW players pouring in overtime, right?

An undefinable number of non-deterministic factors have caused the attitude of this community to shift over the course of time. That is inevitable for ANY community. Change is undefiable.

Do you have empirical data to prove otherwise? You see, your argument goes both ways.

I think i've seen you posting several times demanding for this "empirical evidence" and "studies". It is quite frankly getting a bit annoying now to keep reading the same arguments over and over.

It is a fact that companies run their own numbers but said numbers are never ever known to the players. At best we do have anedotal experience and "guesstimates".

Toxicity has always been here. Usually on a lesser degree as other games but that also depends on the nature of the game and the type of behaviour devs promote. FF14 is largely a cooperative game. It also requires of you to have some sort of endurance / patience to stomach the MSQ (b4 skips) since it doesn't really let you power through to max level.
WoW... well you have 2 factions that are at war with each other and you can technically kill people from the other faction so by its own nature if foments a bit more of that tribalistic "us vs them" behaviour gamers tend towards (console wars anyone?), which in turn turn people more into trash talking and toxicity if taken towards an extreme.

Not saying that traits of them don't overlap. you can see way more toxicity in FF14's pvp mode (i don't fully understand why competition in general turns people into asshats in games...) and raiding in wow requires people to work together but im rambling at this point...

[Vahlnir]

Really bizarre response considering my post did not designate a causal factor.

Perhaps I misread. Apologies if so. Either way my point stands, though it doesn't necessarily pertain to your post now. I'm more or less addressing what some people seem oblivious to.

[Nixxe]

Perhaps I misread. Apologies if so. Either way my point stands, though it doesn't necessarily pertain to your post now. I'm more or less addressing what some people seem oblivious to.

This is my fourth post in this thread and I have yet to blame anyone for anything. All I've done is state an observation–that the culture of this game has become more like the culture of WoW over the last six years–and name some possible explanations or contributing factors for that change. I've deliberately avoid claiming to know the cause because I certainly don't, but I do find the subject interesting, which is why I opened the thread to see what other people had to say.

[CazzT]

This has got to be the most passive-aggressive attitude that I've seen on these forums in decades. Where is this paranoia of yours stemming from?

LOLwut? There's no paranoia, Chicken Little. And I don't think you know what passive-aggressive means.

Has there been a sudden surge of negative threads - specifically from WoW refugees - as of late? Has there been a surge of DOCUMENTED toxicity in-game in the past few months? If you cannot provide any evidence of these crippling issues aside from your anecdotal experiences then your passive-aggressive behaviour is superfluous.

From them? No. About them? Yes. Stories of negative experiences where one of the people causing the negative experience boasts that they're from WoW... Yes to that as well.
And of course there's the attempt to dismiss what someone says by misusing fallacy accusations and demanding evidence for something.
And what "crippling issues" are you referring to? I'm getting the impression you quoted the wrong person.

Does anyone ever wake up and say to themselves: "Oh no, the national debt is 22 trillion dollars and rising! What am I going to do?!"

No.

Based on your post, it would not surprise me if you did exactly that every day. You're certainly prone to make wild leaps and even wilder accusations. Even to the point where you're displaying the very toxicity that FFXIV players dislike.

[Vahlnir]

This is my fourth post in this thread and I have yet to blame anyone for anything. All I've done is state an observation–that the culture of this game has become more like the culture of WoW over the last six years–and name some possible explanations or contributing factors for that change. I've deliberately avoid claiming to know the cause because I certainly don't, but I do find the subject interesting, which is why I opened the thread to see what other people had to say.

That's fair enough. Like I said, I must have misread. At this point a lot of the posts in this thread just look the same and I'm growing tired of it. I jumped to conclusions without reading your post more clearly, so it's my bad.

[Stirix]

It IS tolerated, even celebrated, in WoW. And the more toxic players a community has, the more likely it is that such behavior is tolerated. WoW's community has earned a reputation for being toxic. It's because of this reputation, combined with the sudden surge of WoW players coming to FFXIV, that people in this community are so concerned. It risks shifting the balance from "polite, decent, friendly" to toxic..

That is exactly the point i was making with my story, yes toxic players will come, it has always happened and it will always continue to happen. But here this kind of behaviour is treated very differently than it is over in Warcraft. Over there the dev's and gm's don't care that it happens so long as they make plenty of cash, that is why it has spread so much.

Here the devs and gm's do care, if a player repeatedly behaves in this manner they will get reported multiple times by players, this will be investigated. Since chat logs are saved they can see from reviewing them exactly what kind of stuff was happening, and if it is deemed toxic behaviour it ranges from a warning to a ban depending on level and/or frequency of infractions. Toxicity on that level simply cannot spread here because square are alot more proactive on dealing with it.

One thing that does worry me tho is the perception that all wow players are toxic, we are not. Until i spoke up on this thread no one outside my fc even knew i was former wow. I have kept it that way because of this negative perception of all warcraft players being toxic. Yeah that game does have a high level of toxicity, but to anyone reading this please don't judge the individual based on the actions of the community.

[Nixxe]

That's fair enough. Like I said, I must have misread. At this point a lot of the posts in this thread just look the same and I'm growing tired of it. I jumped to conclusions without reading your post more clearly, so it's my bad.

Yeah, it's fine. I probably could have just skipped the last post I made, but I tend to over explain.

[CazzT]

One thing that does worry me tho is the perception that all wow players are toxic, we are not. Until i spoke up on this thread no one outside my fc even knew i was former wow. I have kept it that way because of this negative perception of all warcraft players being toxic. Yeah that game does have a high level of toxicity, but to anyone reading this please don't judge the individual based on the actions of the community.

I've noticed this, too. Especially on the forums. I've never understood why people fall victim to that mentality.
Just because a community has earned a reputation, doesn't mean that community will not have people in it that are the opposite of that reputation.

[Schan]

Just because a community has earned a reputation, doesn't mean that community will not have people in it that are the opposite of that reputation.

Well... it only takes you a bad day to be lumped with all the "toxic wow people" by a bunch of random internet people.

I agree. It is a very prevalent mentality in this forum. I'd prefer to give people a chance but apparently that's what we have.

[mario710]

Do you have empirical data to prove otherwise? You see, your argument goes both ways.

I think i've seen you posting several times demanding for this "empirical evidence" and "studies". It is quite frankly getting a bit annoying now to keep reading the same arguments over and over.

Toxicity has always been here. Usually on a lesser degree as other games but that also depends on the nature of the game and the type of behaviour devs promote. FF14 is largely a cooperative game. It also requires of you to have some sort of endurance / patience to stomach the MSQ (b4 skips) since it doesn't really let you power through to max level.

It doesn't go both ways. Everything I have stated has been objective in nature.

I avoid stating opinions in these threads for this very reason. Flipping the narrative on me is useless.

It is indeed factual that any number (undefined) of factors will influence a community for better or worse. You ask me to provide evidence of human nature, however, I won't do that. What I will do is restate my point that change is inevitable.

Despite our efforts, everything evolves over time. To claim that WoW immigrants are the problem child of this community infecting everyone is hyperbolic without any semblance of evidence that ISN'T anecdotal.