Question about the real gods and how they relate to the story

[Enkidoh]

A really old (circa 2012) post in the old 1.0 forum (now archived) by Ferne suggested that the Twelve do exist, sort of (in as much as religion and faith believe them to exist), but not necessarily in a form that the mortals of Eorzea believe them to be, and that the truth is naturally murky at best - that the truth about them may have been lost as stories retold about them over countless millenia gradually change into gods and goddesses that watch over the land. This led to fan theories about such things that the Twelve may have been 'heroes' from the First Umbral Era that were deified. Or that they could be something else entirelly.

Unfortunately, with ARR and Hydaelyn and Zodiark's rise to the forefront of the story as the 'real main gods' of the story, the Twelve seemed to fade into obscurity, but given the revelations about Hydaelyn and Zodiark in SHB (which I'm still not 100% totally convinced on), it's possible the Twelve may start to return into the forefront of FFXIV's story again. I really hope so.

[Mugear_bahamut]

I'm not talking about primals. I mean the actual deities of the FFXIV world.

During character creation, we are given an option to choose who our guardian deity is going to be. This doesn't appear to serve any real purpose, either in gameplay (no passive buffs or traits or anything) or in the story. And it's the latter that has me curious.

With all the talk of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, and how the WoL appears to be tempered by Hydaelyn, what if anything, is our guardian deity going to do about it? Do they even exist? What purpose is having a guardian deity if they don't actually guard you?

I'm not sure if the writers ever thought that far ahead, and perhaps choosing a god at character creation was just for RP purposes, but I have to figure there's a reason for it?

I've never played any other Final Fantasy game, so can anyone tell me if this is a feature in the other games as well? I assume the gods and goddesses talked about in FFXIV are references to other Final Fantasy games.

They're basically just guardian Deities. They used to be fictional "gods" until people learned of Hydaelyn and Zodiark, which degraded them to guardians. They're like guardian angels/mythology gods of the real world.

Also everything in character creation from your race, tribe and deity used to provide elemental bonuses which were devoided in later patches.

[Enkidoh]

They're basically just guardian Deities. They used to be fictional "gods" until people learned of Hydaelyn and Zodiark, which degraded them to guardians. They're like guardian angels/mythology gods of the real world.

Also everything in character creation from your race, tribe and deity used to provide elemental bonuses which were devoided in later patches.

Not true. The Twelve have been revered as 'guardian' deities of the citystates in Eorzea since time immemorial, possibly dating back to the First Astral Era - it was stated outright in the manual to FFXIV 1.0, that the citystates of Eorzea would take members of the Twelve as their guardian and that the wars between the citystates were regarded as holy wars:

"The pantheon of the Twelve is followed devoutly by most, and doctrine holds that the past wars of the realm were the wars of the heavens, with the gods and goddesses choosing nations as their respective champions. Whether because of this celestial struggle or more wordly grievances, war spread throughout the realm, discouraging unity and peace."

Of course, ARR retconned or outright abandoned a lot of 1.0's story concepts, but it still appears that does remain at least tenuously true, that the Twelve have been regarded as the guardians of the nations of Eorzea far far longer than just five years previously (in 1.0 Hydaelyn's existence as a 'goddess' was never mentioned outright but merely hinted at, and Zodiark's existence was never mentioned at all).

[Jaywalker]

It still makes me !!!! hard that the Twelve summoned by Louisoix in the cutscene from Unending Coil of Bahamut were crystals. There is also really weird numerology surrounding them relative to stuff with the Convocation of Fourteen, Hydaelyn, and Zodiark—not going into detail so no spoilers.

Additionally, want to stress that while the full setup as Twelve and the specific mythology surrounding each deity might be Eorzea-specific, there have been variations on the deities in other cultures. Sophia has been linked to Azeyma and Nald’Thal, as has worship in Qarn. Azeyma and Menphina can be tied to Azim and Nhamaa among Xaela. Noteworthy that even with gender and myth disparity, Azim and Azeyma even have similar names and roles insofar as judgment goes while Menphina as the lover and the moon remains consistent with Nhamaa.

Currently I figure the Twelve as archetypal deities might make sense? They repeat in the form of patterns across Hydaelyn and across history, but how much and in what forms people perceive them varies.

[Ultimatecalibur]

One think to remember is that the symbols for the twelve are ancient to the point that they are older than the Allagans and they represent 13 entities. It is quite possible that the 12 are actually a mythological remnant of the Amaurotian Conclave.

[redheadturk]

/tenletters

Ya know someone mentioned the Age of Gods and it kind of makes me wonder if they mean the Amaurotines. Because the descendants would have no memories of that time, only stories. So if the Twelve indeed *are* actually twelve of the Conclave. . .imagine the shockwaves of that discovery.

[MrThinker]

/tenletters

Ya know someone mentioned the Age of Gods and it kind of makes me wonder if they mean the Amaurotines. Because the descendants would have no memories of that time, only stories. So if the Twelve indeed *are* actually twelve of the Conclave. . .imagine the shockwaves of that discovery.

The "Age of the Gods" is used to refer to the time right before the First Umbral Calamity.

It is important to note that the First Calamity (of Wind) is NOT the Sundering. The Sundering was the divide of the Source and the creation of the 13 Shards, The First Calamity was the destruction and rejoining of the 5th shard. While the common Eorzean scholar would use 'Age of the Gods' to refer to all time before the 1st Calamity, it would be better for us to distinguish between 'Pre-Sundering' as the "Age of the Ancients" and the time between "Sundering and 1st Calamity" as the true 'Age of the Gods'.
Yes it might be that Elidibus, Lahabrea and Emet-Selch got their associates 'ascended' back to their original selves and at first tried to rule over the disparate races starting in Eorzea, only to hate it and just go with the Rejoinings... but we really know nothing of the 'Age of the Gods'
As an aside, Emet-Selch says that when the Sundering happened, the sundered souls lost most, if not all, of their memories from before, so to them, they were at 'the beginning of the world' and any beings that still retained some sort of enhanced powers in comparison to ther ilk may as well be regarded as gods. Looking at the cave paintings in the Qitana Ravel, some people also might have remembered more than others.

[Lium]

/tenletters

Ya know someone mentioned the Age of Gods and it kind of makes me wonder if they mean the Amaurotines. Because the descendants would have no memories of that time, only stories. So if the Twelve indeed *are* actually twelve of the Conclave. . .imagine the shockwaves of that discovery.

And maybe the WoL’s true name is whoever we chose as our guardian deity, since the speculation is high that we are the 14th member of the Convocation. :-)

[Ardox]

Well to start with, 'existence' is always a tricky topic. Take Ifrit for example - does he exist? Sure he can be summoned, but when nobody is summoning him does he exist elsewhere waiting to be summoned?

It's been 4 years I did ARR's story quest, but don't they explain the primal are dormant in the lifestream while they're not summoned? I felt it was for this reason you couldn't summon a primal at 2 places (Otherwise, the Alllagan's plan to imprison Bahamuth and the Warring Triad wouldn't have worked).. I think there must be some kind of core to which the aether can stick to, but I have no proof of that yet..

[Ardox]

Here's a timeline for those who are lost

• Age of the Ancients
» Sundering (No memories before this point)
—————————————————————————————————————
• Age of the Gods (The Twelves origin's is rooted here)
» First Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Wind

• First Umbral Era
• First Astral Era
» Second Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Lightning

• Second Umbral Era
• Second Astral Era
» Third Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Fire

• Third Umbral Era
• Third Astral Era (Rise of the Allagan Empire)
» Fourth Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Earth

• Fourth Umbral Era
• Fourth Astral Era
» Fifth Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Ice

• Fifth Umbral Era
• Fifth Astral Era (Rise of Nymian, Amdapori and Mhachi civilizations)
» Sixth Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Water

• Sixth Umbral Era
• Sixth Astral Era
» Seventh Umbral Calamity – Calamity of Astral Darkness?

• Seventh Umbral Era
• Seventh Astral Era (Present Days)