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  1. #81
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Nov 2016
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    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    973
    Character
    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    Gaius is the ultimate patriot. I don't see him ever agreeing to do something on behalf of the princeling that murdered His Radiance, especially with the second most stubborn man in the world a foot to his right.
    Gaius also took his entire XIVth Legion and went rogue because after Emperor Solus told him not to expand further into Eorzea, Gaius went "no, I could totally handle Eorzea with this barely-understood Allagan superweapon".

    Gaius's first priority has always been himself and his own beliefs. He may think he's a patriot, but his actions don't seem that patriotic.
    (7)

  2. #82
    Player
    MrThinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    902
    Character
    Jakaar Rakkin
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by YianKutku View Post
    Gaius also took his entire XIVth Legion and went rogue because after Emperor Solus told him not to expand further into Eorzea, Gaius went "no, I could totally handle Eorzea with this barely-understood Allagan superweapon".

    Gaius's first priority has always been himself and his own beliefs. He may think he's a patriot, but his actions don't seem that patriotic.
    I think that was Varis who told him not to continue the campaign.
    (1)

  3. #83
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
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    Nov 2016
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    973
    Character
    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MrThinker View Post
    I think that was Varis who told him not to continue the campaign.
    It was Solus, technically. As in Solus was the one who gave the order to suspend the Eorzean campaign, but also gave the order to proceed with the Meteor project revival, and when we first see Gaius in an ARR cutscene there was talk that he was acting independently of the Emperor's orders, so it's implied that these orders are the previously standing ones about not invading Eorzea.

    (I don't know what Emet-Selch was actually planning with all this yes-and-no, so that's beyond the realm of my speculations.)

    At the time of the whole Ultima Weapon incident, Solus was still Emperor of Garlemald. Varis only became Emperor after ARR (and during the 2.x patches).
    (7)

  4. #84
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    The Hermit's Hovel
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    3,698
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    To be fair, the conquest of Eorzea was put on hold and the Meteor Project resumed specifically because it would cause a Calamity. Causing those was always the goal of Emet-Selch (a.k.a. Solus zos Galvus).

    While Gaius going rogue is definitely very unpatriotic, exactly why he did so could push it into a positive light (as far as Imperial patriotism goes). His stated reason is that "Eorzea must be saved" (for a given value thereof), but popular perception is that part of his motivation was to restore Imperial pride after their defeat at Silvertear and the disaster that was Meteor. (Keep in mind that prior to Silvertear the Empire hadn't dealt with a significant setback ever since wholly committing itself to conquest.) So he's either a patriot or overwhelmingly arrogant... and given Gaius is one of the few Imperials shown to have shreds of decency, people give him the benefit of the doubt.

    (Of course, nothing really shows the Imperials were humbled at all by their defeat at Silvertear. It was more of a personal sore point for Gaius, as he was the one leading the operation and the defeat cost him the Emperor's good graces. Proud and arrogant as he was, he just couldn't let the loss go...)

    Ahem. While Solus (Emet-Selch) was still Emperor at the time of ARR, Varis was the current High Legatus (Zenos' position in Stormblood), and was the one who gave Gaius the order not to advance on Eorzea again (not quite yet, anyway). Gaius disobeyed that order, and the rest is history.
    (6)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  5. #85
    Player
    RadicalPesto's Avatar
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    Jan 2019
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    143
    Character
    Pesto Lady
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonikku View Post
    But all of this happened on it's own without any interference from us or the Scions. If Zenos stopped Black Lotus, then how did the dark timeline that lead to Gra'ha Tia becoming the Exarch materialize?
    In the original timeline the WoL wasn't janked out of combat against Elidibus and might have just destroyed the Zenos body right there, eliminating Zenos's motivation to travel to the capital and thus his killing of Varis simply not happening.
    (1)

  6. #86
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Nov 2017
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    14,077
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonikku View Post
    But all of this happened on it's own without any interference from us or the Scions. If Zenos stopped Black Lotus, then how did the dark timeline that lead to Gra'ha Tia becoming the Exarch materialize?
    How can we be sure he stopped it from ever being used? In a hypothetical timeline where the First is still primed for calamity and Zenos is in charge, the situation that led to the use of Black Rose could still happen, and Zenos might not have the final say as to what his forces out in the field do in a moment of panic.



    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalPesto View Post
    In the original timeline the WoL wasn't janked out of combat against Elidibus and might have just destroyed the Zenos body right there, eliminating Zenos's motivation to travel to the capital and thus his killing of Varis simply not happening.
    It's all very theoretical and wibbly-wobbly, especially at the moment, but we can't say where the timeline splits until we are definitely past the point where the Calamity would have been triggered, but now has not.

    The "original timeline" (ending in the bad future) may have always incorporated the Exarch and his attempts to contact us, while the split point could depend on whether he succeeds or not, whether we successfully complete our quest or not, whether we win the final battle or not. It might even hinge on some future point that we won't see until the patch quests.
    (1)

  7. #87
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    3,096
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalPesto View Post
    In the original timeline the WoL wasn't janked out of combat against Elidibus and might have just destroyed the Zenos body right there, eliminating Zenos's motivation to travel to the capital and thus his killing of Varis simply not happening.
    The other Scions would have also been awake, meaning Urianger could have prepared white auracite. With everyone(plus Hien and Yugiri) in one place, it would have been the prime opportunity to create the future we were shown.
    (0)

  8. #88
    Player
    Lium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    1,026
    Character
    Brielle Artemus
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Watch it be Fordola (or someone like that) who used Black Rose, trying to wipe out the empire but instead it caused a Calamity.

    Or maybe that woman from Ishgard who poisoned the WoL and caused an uprising and was shot by that guard on Emmanellain‘s order.

    SE always does a good job of bringing secondary characters back that we may have forgotten about. Like Ilberd.

    For example, wasn’t that last boss of POTD that adventurer who we saw getting chewed out by her party for being bad at her job? It was at the inn in Gridania. You felt bad for her, especially when we hear her friend/partner died. But I thought it was just a parody of how real life Duty Finder dungeons go, until I ran POTD.

    The writers do stuff like that all the time. And it’s great.
    (0)

  9. #89
    Player
    Dualblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Night Kdark
    Posts
    2,190
    Character
    Juyon Intoner
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lium View Post
    Watch it be Fordola (or someone like that) who used Black Rose, trying to wipe out the empire but instead it caused a Calamity.

    Or maybe that woman from Ishgard who poisoned the WoL and caused an uprising and was shot by that guard on Emmanellain‘s order.

    SE always does a good job of bringing secondary characters back that we may have forgotten about. Like Ilberd.

    For example, wasn’t that last boss of POTD that adventurer who we saw getting chewed out by her party for being bad at her job? It was at the inn in Gridania. You felt bad for her, especially when we hear her friend/partner died. But I thought it was just a parody of how real life Duty Finder dungeons go, until I ran POTD.

    The writers do stuff like that all the time. And it’s great.
    Fordola has some plausibility but doubtful, it was almost certainly either Varis or Elidibus. More so since G'raha Exarch can't have been involved at that point in the original timeline.

    Second point was actually resolved in the 63 DRK quest. I get it isn't just about her but characters like her are too minor for this specific story element.

    Edda already had a bit more importance by then do to Tam Tara HM and she wasn't the final boss overall of PoTD, just an important underling. Can't remember the actual find boss name right now, on the tip of my tongue.
    (1)

  10. #90
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
    Posts
    3,698
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    According to Crystal Exarch G'raha, Black Rose was deliberately used by the Empire as a last-ditch effort to win as the Eorzean and Doman combined forces were pressing them. (Which should serve as decisive evidence that the Imperial war machine is not invincible.) Without evidence to the contrary it's safe to operate under the assumption that it was used on Varis' orders.

    Fordola is busy as part of the anti-primal squad of the Scions that works to quell summonings when we aren't there to deal with them. Powerful as she may be, I doubt she'd be on the front lines of a war, let alone have access to the Empire's chemical weapons.

    Lowdy got closure.

    Edda has presence in the early dungeon quest, as an important figure in the Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard) dungeon as the one orchestrating the voidsent incursion (having been driven mad with grief at her fianceé's death as a result of her own party's initial foray into the catacomb). She appears for the final time as Edda Blackbosom, the boss of Palace of the Dead's 50th floor and a minion of Nybeth Obdilord (a reference to the character of the same name from Tactics Ogre, cuz the developers of this game are Matsuno fanboys I guess... anyway, I digress).
    (7)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

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