Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

[Inuk9]

If I dont feeling like pulling wall to wall why should I have to comply to a hasty dps who wants me to do it?

If you want fast pulls play tank yourself or play with your friends. There are times that I simply want to relax.

[Yoshihara]

Nah, the problem here is clearly tank arrogance and entitlement. And I'm saying this as a tank, not a dps.

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As people, yes everyone has a right to feel unhappy about things that upset them. But as players in a multiplayer game, how you feel is not the only thing that matters. To insist that other players need to cater to your feelings is entitlement at its finest. Playing a tank doesn't make you special. It doesn't make you king. You don't deserve extra respect for it. To think that it does is arrogance.

Tanks need to do their job just like everyone else is expected to. If you do it well, then maybe, just maybe, you'll earn others' respect.

This. Just because I'm playing tank (or healer) doesn't put me above everyone else and demand people respect my role. In fact I appreciate it if someone with more range than me goes off and pops a group and brings it to me, saves me from running, especially if I've run out of sprint. Going AFK and telling people to "learn their roles" is an incredibly negative attitude and arrogance I despise, and for some reason a lot of people with the mentor crown have this foul attitude where they feel like it is their right to be obstructive towards everyone. I've gone several runs as healer where a DPS pulls for the tank, and then the tank spends 20 or so minutes spewing vitriol at the DPS, and telling me to "Let them die". We end up completing the dungeon without the tank and usually kick them for AFKing just before the final boss.

[Kanitezz]

That last line in your picture is a nice way to look at things.

[Shurrikhan]

If you really do what you're saying you do, which I kinda doubt, why not just speak to the party? If I see a dps underperforming, not using AoEs, I wouldn't just reduce my pulls to cater to him, I'd be frank and ask him why he isn't using AoEs, it's that simple. The problem of not communicating is that you risk being misinterpreted. We're only humans, after all.

I communicate. That said, "Please AoE when fighting 3+ mobs, and focus the same mob as everyone else when attacking the remainder," tends to me met with the same silence or offhand crude comment as "Tank, the healer has been able to keep you alive thus far off a single Regen and a couple oGCDs, and our damage is plentiful. We should be safe to do full pulls. Do you mind if we try them?"

Yes, I have multiple macros for each. They see use in about every fourth run. They have an effect in about every thirtieth. At some point, you wonder if it's even worth the space on your fly-out bar.

[Nyoraii]

I communicate. That said, "Please AoE when fighting 3+ mobs, and focus the same mob as everyone else when attacking the remainder," tends to me met with the same silence or offhand crude comment as "Tank, the healer has been able to keep you alive thus far off a single Regen and a couple oGCDs, and our damage is plentiful. We should be safe to do full pulls. Do you mind if we try them?"

Yes, I have multiple macros for each. They see use in about every fourth run. They have an effect in about every thirtieth. At some point, you wonder if it's even worth the space on your fly-out bar.

If you really do communicate, then there is no problem, you did all you could and that's fine. But it's important to note that this approach is completely different than just taking conclusions by yourself, thinking you know more than the others and trying to do their job for them. That is arrogance (having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities).

[Shawnerz]

Most of us do not like small pulls. It slows down the run and we don't get to pop cooldowns and aoe like crazy. Still, for me at least, it's always the tank and healers call. When I queue up for a group activity I do so understanding that not everyone plays optimally/how I want. Even if it's not the pace I prefer I always try to be respectful or not say anything at all and certainly do not pull for my tank.

[ThunderGodThor]

If I dont feeling like pulling wall to wall why should I have to comply to a hasty dps who wants me to do it?

If you want fast pulls play tank yourself or play with your friends. There are times that I simply want to relax.

Try relaxing when you're not slowing down 3 other players- just a thought.

[Shurrikhan]

If you really do communicate, then there is no problem, you did all you could and that's fine. But it's important to note that this approach is completely different than just taking conclusions by yourself, thinking you know more than the others and trying to do their job for them. That is arrogance (having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities).

I don't think it's completely different. You are either performing the task for the party or you are not. That you do or do not receive a response from the member in question, or that you may run into conflict with one member in attempting to benefit everyone else, doesn't change that. Their performance changes only what can at best be expected your given party, not whether or not you are allowed to perform to that estimate as a party.

If the majority of the party wants to go out of their way to slow the run, then perhaps one should just do that or leave and queue again later. But if the majority wants to run at a unfettered pace and that pace is possible except for the ego of the tank, then I would situationally encourage the party to pressure that end, even if it means going past the tank and pulling for them. "Tank, we're doing full pulls. Use your Sprint just before combat to double its duration, get in one AoE of threat on everything and then gather the further groups. Open with HG/LD/SB and trickle CDs from there and we'll deal with it."

[Nyoraii]

I don't think it's completely different. You are either performing the task for the party or you are not. That you do or do not receive a response from the member in question, or that you may run into conflict with one member in attempting to benefit everyone else, doesn't change that. Their performance changes only what can at best be expected your given party, not whether or not you are allowed to perform to that estimate as a party.

If the majority of the party wants to go out of their way to slow the run, then perhaps one should just do that or leave and queue again later. But if the majority wants to run at a unfettered pace and that pace is possible except for the ego of the tank, then I would situationally encourage the party to pressure that end, even if it means going past the tank and pulling for them. "Tank, we're doing full pulls. Use your Sprint just before combat to double its duration, get in one AoE of threat on everything and then gather the further groups. Open with HG/LD/SB and trickle CDs from there and we'll deal with it."

I 10000% disagree, couldn't disagree more. If your idea of playing with a team is like that "lets force others to play how we want and not even talk to them!", then I'd suggest you to not play in a team at all, this is the kind of behaviour that leads to grief and drama. Whereas if you only communicated (preferably with respect), maybe you could find some common ground and everyone would be happy.

Now if you really want to play like that, I'd suggest trying Trusts, I think they'd be more to your liking.

[Shurrikhan]

Whereas if you only communicated (preferably with respect), maybe you could find some common ground and everyone would be happy.

What you're asking for, as a general rule of conduct and a result therefrom, is fantastical at best.

Communication that neither pushes towards nor achieves a result is, definitively, wasted time and breath. Moreover, when the issue itself is inefficiency on the part of one person to the expense of the others' time--largely due to entitlement, in the cases we've been discussing here--how would attempting to placate an ego of, and offering up a pedestal to (as if one held the same power as three), someone who will most likely not change their actions somehow make things more efficient? That we wish it does not make it so. When the issue taken is with someone's inefficiency, expect people to deal with that problem... efficiently. That may mean pulling or kicking.

Again, we're talking about a situation where the party is able and (minus one player) wanting to do something. If it is acceptable, with few to no words, to kick and replace a member with a difference of playstyle, why should it be unacceptable to draw the one problematic member into the playstyle of the other three under the few words or none?

Three does not equal one, except when you let the one grandstand and the three treat themselves with only a third of the respect with which they treat the one. That is what you're asking.

That no action or no words spoken -- i.e. that no conflict is readily visible -- does not mean no conflict exists. There's a difference between contentment and silent irritation.

Whereas if you only communicated (preferably with respect), maybe you could find some common ground and everyone would be happy.

This advice would be more applicable to tanks who refuse to full-pull when the party wants to and is capable than the three being held back, whom you would limit to "only communicating".