ShB story did not go the way I thought it would. (Spoilers)

[Theodric]

Just remember the Ascians dont need to lie exactly they can say half truths and still not lie.

Emet-Selch was almost certainly telling the truth. His primary concern was to ensure that his people were seen as actual people and that their history and culture was brought back/preserved. His name also roughly translates to 'Bringer of Truth'.

Hydaelyn, meanwhile, has been anything but open and honest. She has lied repeatedly - both directly and indirectly.

Characters have been killed off for far lesser reasoning. I think it's about time we apply the same standards across the board if we can find a way to safely extract her without shattering reality further.

There can be no mercy for false deities.

[Iscah]

Exactly this... plus, Uncle Emet essentially gives you a hint early on in the MSQ when he says...

Allies worthy of bearing the burden of truth.

And yet curiously enough, instead of echoing that quote, the quest in which he explains the murals to us is called "The Burden of Knowledge" rather than Truth.

[Lauront]

Hydaelyn, meanwhile, has been anything but open and honest. She has lied repeatedly - both directly and indirectly.

And by design! It seems reasonable to surmise that the rationale is going to be that it was to achieve fragmentation of all lifeforms whilst depriving them of memory of the event as a "necessary step" to avoid the further step of sacrifice the Convocation sought plus more stringent regulation of life to avoid potential abuses of Creation magick. At least then it isn't the usual good/evil/ drama and more a matter of two distinct philosophical approaches and two Primals with their upsides and their flaws.

And yet curiously enough, instead of echoing that quote, the quest in which he explains the murals to us is called "The Burden of Knowledge" rather than Truth.

There isn't a huge divide between the two, other than that knowledge is usually defined as a justified, true belief. The truth wouldn't be much of a burden if you did not know it.

[CazzT]

Primals don't temper passively. They temper when they actually want to do it. We have to take into account the circumstances surrounding Hydaelyn's summoning to see that it's actually feasible that she hasn't felt the need to temper anyone, or that doing it might be against her nature. Regardless, while most of the primals that we know use tempering to control their subjects, it's perfectly possible that tempering someone doesn't involve a will to control.

Keep in mind that Hydaelen and Zodiark are not our typical primals. The rules we know for tempering and such may differ with these two. It could be that they temper just by exposure to them, or a passive tempering. It may be something that just happens. At the same time, being tempered by either also appears to leave one's own free will intact. Hydaelen and Zodiark operate on a different rule set due to them being on a completely different level of power.

[kidalutz]

Emet-Selch was almost certainly telling the truth. His primary concern was to ensure that his people were seen as actual people and that their history and culture was brought back/preserved. His name also roughly translates to 'Bringer of Truth'.

Hydaelyn, meanwhile, has been anything but open and honest. She has lied repeatedly - both directly and indirectly.

Characters have been killed off for far lesser reasoning. I think it's about time we apply the same standards across the board if we can find a way to safely extract her without shattering reality further.

There can be no mercy for false deities.

I think you need to redo the msq from scratch and explain this again cause frankly I think you're really scratching here.
First thing you need to remember Ascians are all tempered and the Tempered will think of ONLY for thier Primal. Thier reasoning thier justifications all of that are only to serve thier tempered masters ultimate goals. Zodiark required sacrifice and vast reservoirs of Aether and would only do his work when given these sacrifices it said as much right in the text of the story Half of the Ancients were required to stay thier end time to summon him half again that number was required to heal the world from what the ancients who brought forth the horrors of the world created. While Emet-Selch wanted to see his people restored the only way to do so was to once again bring forth Zodiark through the destruction of 13 worlds thats beyond vast amounts of Aether. and what would he do to see his people restored sacrifice the rest of the life that was left to Zodiark

Meanwhile Hydaelyn was summoned and was the very opposite of Zodiark Not once has she lied. In fact if you think things through you'd fairly quickly realise that in Order to Preserve Life Hydaelyn had no choice but to split everything into 14 separate parts. Even with Zodiark defeated his tempered would not end the war that began when they clashed and that war would very much have destroyed everything simply due to the untamed energies employed by the Ancients themselves by splitting existence into 14 parts Hydaelyn ensured that life would thrive and grow and evolve. it effectively ended a war that would have seen all life ended by that lifes own hands.

[Theodric]

-snip-

I've completed the MSQ's on two different characters. It was never implied that Hydaelyn was 'good' and Zodiark 'evil'. Furthermore she has lied by falsely claiming that Zodiark was responsible for shattering reality when it was, in fact, a consequence of her own actions. Her motives are largely unknown for us and the attempts to paint her as being virtuous stem from bias sources as well as speculation pushed as fact on behalf of various players.

She is also directly responsible for Minfilia's situation and falsely presenting herself as a deity when she is not one. In general she's been fairly incompetent at best, malicious at worst.

[Lauront]

If we're the Ascian/ancient who summoned Hydaelyn, we and all her summoners are in all likehihood also tempered. It was never implied Zodiark would only do that work if he had sacrifices, but that they were necessary to repair the dire state of the world. The final sacrifice they envisioned was to bring back those who gave their lives to summon him and repair the world. It's all well and good noting what it'd take to restore Zodiark and their world, but the Sundering is what made such actions necessary... they don't consider life forms that post-date it as 1) equivalent to them and 2) legitimate. Any warring was a consequence of her being summoned at that point. If the summoning was instigated, as some speculate, against the Convocation's wish to more tightly regulate the world given the way Creation magicks were manipulated into almost bringing about the end of the world (for reasons we still don't know), the misgivings about their misuse becomes something of a wash. Destruction of the world would not follow from her destruction at that point - simply reclamation of aether.

I also find it bizarre that it's claimed that she hasn't lied. Elidibus - when speaking to himself - notes that obscuring your broken state and origins was the intended consequence of her summoning. Is he "lying" or telling half-truths in a monologue? Or is hers just a "white lie" and thus not a real one? The events so far seem pretty consistent with what he said on the matter and she is lying one way or another.

Although there may have been understandable motives to her summoning, and in both cases they were last resorts to extreme events, the Sundering seems like a sledgehammer approach.

[kidalutz]

If we're the Ascian/ancient who summoned Hydaelyn, we and all her summoners are in all likehihood also tempered. It was never implied Zodiark would only do that work if he had sacrifices, but that they were necessary to repair the dire state of the world. The final sacrifice they envisioned was to bring back those who gave their lives to summon him and repair the world. It's all well and good noting what it'd take to restore Zodiark and their world, but the Sundering is what made such actions necessary... they don't consider life forms that post-date it as 1) equivalent to them and 2) legitimate. Any warring was a consequence of her being summoned at that point. If the summoning was instigated, as some speculate, against the Convocation's wish to more tightly regulate the world given the way Creation magicks were manipulated into almost bringing about the end of the world (for reasons we still don't know), the misgivings about their misuse becomes something of a wash. Destruction of the world would not follow from her destruction at that point - simply reclamation of aether.

I also find it bizarre that it's claimed that she hasn't lied. Elidibus - when speaking to himself - notes that obscuring your broken state and origins was the intended consequence of her summoning. Is he "lying" or telling half-truths in a monologue? Or is hers just a "white lie" and thus not a real one? The events so far seem pretty consistent with what he said on the matter and she is lying one way or another.

Although there may have been understandable motives to her summoning, and in both cases they were last resorts to extreme events, the Sundering seems like a sledgehammer approach.

Again to reiterate Hydaelyn has never been asked by anyone thier origins the reason the worlds are in 14 different existences nor the reason for why she does what she does. if not asked there is no chance to lie thuskly no lying ever took place you're only getting the ascian side of the story and drawing conclusions from that when has ever one half of the story been the comprehensive truth of all?

[Katie_Kitty]

Why are we assuming hydaelyn HAS to be tempering people? If we know Zodiark tempers people, and Hydaelyn was summoned to counter zodiark, it follows that she may not have been summoned with the ability to temper at all. In fact it makes sense to believe she may have the complete opposite, the power to protect people from tempering and maybe to even reverse it.

[Renato]

I think it would have been cool during the scene where our character is turning to have him go berserk and have to fight the Scions, ultimately injuring one of them only being calmed down once Ardbert interfered giving Ryne enough time to supress the light coruption...It would have been freaking epic and the aftermath would have been interesting.

I do feel like we're going to fight Hydaelyn at some point though. Emet made it a habit to keep pointing out the fact that Hydaelyn was created to keep Zodiark, who was seen as too powerful to some, in check. Who's to say that she won't do the same to the WoL? After all, we've defeated primals, gods and other beings.