[Complaint/Concern] Completely Unacceptable

[Akamukai]

Is there something about NA servers? Being on an EU as a NA-based player, I always hear crap about the player base but never thought much of it. Having gone around the forums, the ones I see complaining about toxic behavior and FFlog questions are people on NA DCs. I've got over 1,000HRs and I've yet to be asked about my logs outside of Party-Finder parties that didn't give you a heads up.

To stay on topic: OP, I've gotten into arguments with teammates too, but I also wouldn't go whining on forums for being kicked when the group didn't get along. If you were as lovely a person as you think, you wouldn't have been kicked. If I'm wrong and you're a perfectly pleasent person but got kicked regardless, move on. Being kicked sucks, but so does playing with a group who drives you up a wall.

[Kaethra]

Is there something about NA servers? Being on an EU as a NA-based player, I always hear crap about the player base but never thought much of it. Having gone around the forums, the ones I see complaining about toxic behavior and FFlog questions are people on NA DCs. I've got over 1,000HRs and I've yet to be asked about my logs outside of Party-Finder parties that didn't give you a heads up.

I've been playing on NA for a few years and can honestly say.. troublesome players are very very rare.

The last time I had an issue is with someone who got upset with how the group was pulling. This was back in 2.0 before vote kick was a thing. But anyway the group was a friend of mine tanking, I was healing, and another friend was DPSing. I don't remember what it was this person got irked about was, but they got ticked and decided to sit at the entrance and let us three man. We couldn't kick because that wasn't a thing. I think we ended up actually getting them banned though.

But all this stuff about parsers, FFlogs, and other shenanigans.... I don't see it. Worst case scenario I've seen is a couple of healers played by bots. Usually we notice not alot of healing going around and some derpy movements. So what we do is ask point blank, "are you a bot?" If they say nothing, we vote kick them. If they speak up we apologize and keep going.

There is a subset of the community. Not a majority, but a vocal minority of some broken individuals. What I mean by broken is they are plagued IRL with anxiety, depression, and the like. So they tend to react very badly to any action or message experienced ingame that causes one of those conditions to flare up. So a miscommunication turns south real quick and then all of a sudden they feel attacked (whether they are truthfully or not entire). And when they cry for help or seek a resolution and don't get one quickly enough or one to their satisfaction. They act like there is a systemic problem across the game.

To put this simply. Lets use the typical scenario where one of these players is tanking. Already they are stepping out of their comfort zone. Their defenses are raised, their anxiety is ticking. Tanking requires setting the pace and all eyes are on them. Oh boy...

They pull a group of mobs. They get agro on everything. And everything is going great. They're not dying, DPS is killing stuff, and the healer is.. wait.. wtf is the healer doing? Oh snap they've done got bored and pulled another group. Oh crap oh damn stuff is hitting the fan! The poor tank is trying to use their abilities, trying to get the AOEs to hit. They''re hitting the wrong buttons at the wrong time, and nothing is going right.

But... in truth its not going bad. They're handling it just fine, but on their screen, in their eyes, its a blur. They can't think straight, they are shaking. Its just a horrible experience. The dust finally settles and here's where the real fun begins.

So they're going to tell the healer not to do that. And lets be honest, we all agree the healer did a bad thing. But we're not discussing the right or wrong thing done. We're talking about the feeling of the situation, the experience to understand what is causing the reaction. So stay with me.

Healer got bored. Healer sees no one dead, hell they didn't let anyone get below half. So their derped up reaction is going to be predictable. No one died, no harm no foul. Never mind the absolute terror they just imposed on the tank with issues.

Do the DPS chime in to help the tank? Nope. The DPS did their thing and don't know what the hell the argument is even about. Or very likely they'd like to do some AOE so while they may agree the healer should never pull. They're going to tell the tank its alright to pull more.

Shouldn't have said that. Should not have said that....

This freaked out tank is now being told they aren't pulling enough by three separate people. Well.. not really being told. Just suggested. But it might as well be. Three vs One right? Yeah we're having all kinds of misconstrued issues here. But that's what happens when you get someone in a situation that is.. well probably isn't good for them.

At this point there's about a dozen different ways this can go. Some better than others, some really bad. And when one isn't such a good way.. well these people need an outlet to vent said frustration. Because they just went through an entire instanced dungeon of pure anxious depressing hell. Maybe the people were dicks, maybe they didn't intend to be. It doesn't really matter at this point.

This is just one example. There's about a hundred different scenarios. But the main point is. These people got their condition flared. Didn't see people care (most likely because your average person has absolutely no clue how to identify when someone has an issue, much less how to deal with it) and then they come to the forums saying how bad the community is. While the rest of us are like 'what?'

I noticed this nearly a decade ago playing EQ2. I always knew some people were better at being in groups than others. But NOTHING prepared me for this. I was doing a level 80 dungeon with some guildmates. We were about levels 85-90 and 4 manning (max group size was 6). So we were undermanned, but overleveled. One of them was playing a tank class and learning how to tank in EQ2. Back then it was a tricky thing to do, mostly requiring you to gear properly. I had made sure my guildmate had the gear needed for their level.

So all I had to do was couch them on how to tank. Giving them heads up when adds came out. And then mechanics for some of the bosses (simpler than bosses in Sastasha for reference). Well suffice to say we had a few wipes. But we weren't discouraged. Whole point was a learning experience. We eventually got through most of it. Maybe finished it, I don't quite remember. I do remember it ending on a good note. Or so I thought.

Next day I get told by another guildmate that I was a complete jerk and that they didn't want to even be in the same guild anymore. Now that was shocking. So I asked what was it I said or did. Something along the lines of pushing their friend too hard, and saying "We'll keep at this until we get it right." I remember saying that. I had said it after a particularly tough room. However the tone I used (it was in voice) was to be encouraging and motivating. I wanted to let them know we had their back.

I mean reading it as text looks like it could be construed as being pushy or condescending. But the tone was not. I had even asked my other two friends who were on the run if I had crossed any lines. They assured me I had not and thought as I did that the run went well. Three of us thought the run went well. One felt like they were an emotional wreck, yet made no indication how it was effecting them. It took me a while after that to understand just exactly what was going on. As well as speaking to other friends who had experience with such anxiety and such before.

To this day I still can't pretend to understand exactly how these people feel. Its weird to me, even though I understand that it exists.

But these people are very self conscious when it comes to how others interact with them. To them we're always judging them, ready to pounce on the first sign of weakness to tear down their emotional barriers. Well they are right about one thing. Everyone always judges each other. Not for malevolent reasons. Many of us simply use each other for self improvement. But that's not how it is perceived. Especially when we have bad apples among us who do act within those fears and use weakness against their fellow player.

As for why NA servers may seem a bit more ansty about this stuff. I can kind of explain why. Americans and Canadians are typically more aggressive than Europeans. This isn't to say we're mean. We're just more confrontational when it comes to disagreements. Which is not always the best thing for some players who maybe need a less confrontational environment. And then there's the competitive nature that goes with that.

[JediFirefly]

These are instances where you just need to have a thicker skin. I had an issue in a dungeon earlier tonight that sums up how I deal with these types of people in DF dungeons.

My normal DF run is spawn in, give them a "o/" in party chat and that's it. For example, I was playing DRG in Bardam's Mettle. The party was me, PLD, WHM and a MCH. For the first half I was giving dragon's eye to the PLD because the MCH was never really in range, being a ranged DPS and all that where the PLD was always in melee range with me. Then the PLD says "Stop giving me your eye, give it to the other DPS" I could of went off, or educated him as to why I was doing it the way I was. In the end the only thing I did was stop giving the eye to him and just self casting it.

People need to just learn to say it's only a game, in 10 years who is really going to give a f---.