Reminder that war is still good.

[Reynhart]

When you don't use both charges during Trick Attack you will lose dps.

I'm starting to think that gap closers will one day receive the stun/silence treatment and will no longer do damage.

[Arewn]

Ok, lets take the primordial argument from him who "disected" (lmao)

"So given a situation where Onslaught is now free and you overcap as a result, you haven't lost anything."


If you truly believe that then you don`t know how to Warrior, so sorry =/

"If you truly believe that then you don`t know how to Warrior, so sorry =/"

Again, this does absolutely nothing to address the point I made. You're just hand waving what I said without actually saying why it's wrong while condescendingly saying "I just don't know warrior".

Let me give a simplified example for you since you seem to have missed my earlier point.
You are at 100 gauge and onslaught cost 20 gauge:
Use onslaught, bringing you to 80
Use maim, bringing you to 90
Use storm's eye, bringing you to 100
you end with 100 gauge

By comparison, you have 100 gauge and onslaught is free:
Use onslaught, keeping you at 100 because it's free
Use maim, keeping you at 100 because it's capped
Use storm's eye, keeping you at 100 because it's capped
You end with 100 gauge

The two situations give a functionally identical result. Using onslaught to manage gauge hasn't earned you anything relative to if it was free.

Hopefully you don't reply with something vacant like "if you think that's a warrior rotation, you don't know how to warrior".

[SpookyGhost]

The two situations give a functionally identical result. Using onslaught to manage gauge hasn't earned you anything relative to if it was free.

Genuinely I don't know what situation people are finding themselves in that they're overcapping to begin with. I get preserving stacks for a TA window or whatever, but using Onslaught @ 100 will buy you at most 3 GCDs, which is (at most) 7.5 seconds.... which is basically nothing. The only time I even touch Onslaught is if I'm far enough away from the boss to warrant it or during my IR window where it's free. It having a gauge cost only affects the former and only in a negative way (if the boss jumps away and I don't have the gauge, I can't gap close, whereas every other tank can). Just remove the gauge cost and it's functionally the same as all the other gap closers.

[Reynhart]

Hopefully you don't reply with something vacant like "if you think that's a warrior rotation, you don't know how to warrior".

I'm sorry, but if you put aside the issue of overcapping, you could easily reach the conclusion that ressource cost is irrelevant for just about everything.
For example, if use enough SoulEater combo as a DRK, you'll always reach 10000 MP regardless if Edge/Flood cost 3000 or not.

[Izsha]

I'm sorry, but if you put aside the issue of overcapping, you could easily reach the conclusion that ressource cost is irrelevant for just about everything.
For example, if use enough SoulEater combo as a DRK, you'll always reach 10000 MP regardless if Edge/Flood cost 3000 or not.

You are missing the point that the thing you would have spent your resource on no longer costs resources. If drks actions that cost mp were instead free and put on a timer that matched current mp gain then you wouldnt loose anything. Youd just be a job thay didnt use mp like war.

All hes saying is that you gain 100 potency right now from onslaught to prevent overcapping by 20. If onslaught cost no gauge and you overcspped by 20 because you had no release valve, you would still use onslaught and get that 100 pot and just overcap by 20.

Today Onslaught currently costs 20$. If tomorrow somone gave you an onslaught for free and you burned 20$ in your fireplace you are in the SAME SITUATION.in fact youd be better off because you dont always need to burn that 20. In situations you dont need to burn 20 your actually better off. How people think that something that costs anything becoming FREE is a nerf is utterly mind boggling.

There is so much facepalm in this thread (and not just this onslaught dumbness)

[Arewn]

Genuinely I don't know what situation people are finding themselves in that they're overcapping to begin with. I get preserving stacks for a TA window or whatever, but using Onslaught @ 100 will buy you at most 3 GCDs, which is (at most) 7.5 seconds.... which is basically nothing. The only time I even touch Onslaught is if I'm far enough away from the boss to warrant it or during my IR window where it's free. It having a gauge cost only affects the former and only in a negative way (if the boss jumps away and I don't have the gauge, I can't gap close, whereas every other tank can). Just remove the gauge cost and it's functionally the same as all the other gap closers.

I'm scratching my head over this too.
Frankly, our gauge mechanic is so stupidly simple at this point that it doesn't need any particular management in the first place. Use Infuriate outside of IR. Use Fel Cleave at some point between 50 and 100 gauge. Pepper in Upheavals pretty much on cooldown unless IR or a dps window is soon.
Gauge doesn't give stats anymore so you don't have to keep it high, you have 50 gauge of leeway to work with to not over cap, and combos last 15 seconds now so you basically never have to worry about interrupting your combo.

Onslaught has a potency of 100. If you're in a situation where you're using it to not over cap, you've already screwed up. You should have used that gauge earlier on a Fel Cleave which a) does significantly more damage per gauge point spent and b) reduces the CD of Infuriate, which is a further dps increase.

[Arewn]

You are missing the point that the thing you would have spent your resource on no longer costs resources. If drks actions that cost mp were instead free and put on a timer that matched current mp gain then you wouldnt loose anything. Youd just be a job thay didnt use mp like war.

All hes saying is that you gain 100 potency right now from onslaught to prevent overcapping by 20. If onslaught cost no gauge and you overcspped by 20 because you had no release valve, you would still use onslaught and get that 100 pot and just overcap by 20.

Today Onslaught currently costs 20$. If tomorrow somone gave you an onslaught for free and you burned 20$ in your fireplace you are in the SAME SITUATION.in fact youd be better off because you dont always need to burn that 20. In situations you dont need to burn 20 your actually better off. How people think that something that costs anything becoming FREE is a nerf is utterly mind boggling.

There is so much facepalm in this thread (and not just this onslaught dumbness)

Exactly.
Also, just to add to this. Realistically you would never overcap by 20. You'd over cap by 10 at the most (using Storm's Path at 90 gauge). Which just further decreases the value of Onslaught's pitiful 100 potency.

To be a worthwhile gauge management tool, they'd have to at least reduce it's cost to 10 gauge.

[OmegaSinX]

And being braindead doesn't mean its engaging or fun to play either...blah blah blah.

Speak for yourself; a good majority of this community thinks WAR is in the best place it's ever been and I think it has the best synergy of all the tanks. The Class is one of the most effective tanks to clear content with: Amazing Burst, Amazing AoE, and arguably best at self-sustain (Torn on how I feel about my PLD Clemency).

Synergy over more buttons mashing any day.

[NyneSwordz]

Speak for yourself; a good majority of this community thinks WAR is in the best place it's ever been and I think it has the best synergy of all the tanks. The Class is one of the most effective tanks to clear content with: Amazing Burst, Amazing AoE, and arguably best at self-sustain (Torn on how I feel about my PLD Clemency).

Synergy over more buttons mashing any day.

I dunno about synergy. Infuriate and IR feels a bit clunky. Onslaught costing guage feels a bit clunky bc a utility using a dps resource is weird. Eye buff is the old maim buff moved from 2gcd to apply to 3.

Opening feels weird. tomahwk, infuriate, inner chaos, then eye combo, ir, fc x5. I wish there was a way to apply eye faster so the first inner chaos wasnt naked and we could get to IR fc spam faster without having to prep single target combo.

Aoe also feels awkward with overpower being a cone and mythril tempest being 360. Mythril tempest only refreshing eye by 10 secs also sucks. I wish it applied eye sp we wouldnt have to prep single target combo for aoe. Yes, slashing debuff is gone so its easier to maintain buff, but in a dungeon run, its still really hard to keep eye up at all times.

Dont get me wrong, war is decent. But i wouldnt say it has great synergy among all of its actions. Pld is better in that regard imo.

We'll see what 5.05 holds for war. I sorta feel hopeful wars will be getting more than potency buffs, because if thats all it was they would have done that in 5.01. They barely made adjustments in5.01, none of which were to potency of any kind. which suggests to me that theyre gonna do some serious rotational changes and are waiting to get that finalized before touching potency.

Fingers crossed that war gets some thjngs changed, like onslaught and nascent flash and perhaps something to make eye easier to apply and maintain.

[BarretOblivion]

Speak for yourself; a good majority of this community thinks WAR is in the best place it's ever been and I think it has the best synergy of all the tanks. The Class is one of the most effective tanks to clear content with: Amazing Burst, Amazing AoE, and arguably best at self-sustain (Torn on how I feel about my PLD Clemency).

Synergy over more buttons mashing any day.

Are they really? Because right now on fflogs WAR is the least played of all the tanks right now by about 20% at only 41k clears in current extreme fights while all other tanks are at least at 51k, yes even DRK more people are playing. Its burst doesn't mean anything because it fall short on damage to the two "support tanks". Raw intiution was a good buff, but it also had vengeance nerfed from 15 seconds to 10 seconds and a OT skill that is objectively the worst in the game. 10% mitigation is the same as reprisal... and all you get extra is a 6 second window for a shared bloodbath effect that ignores all damage increases leading to an incredibly weak heal for your MT that is basically useless in the grand scheme of things. Holmgang is still a good tank invuln, but its the shortest one in the game for effect making it clunky if not impossible to use for mechanics other tanks would invuln for. WAR is just right now the worst option as an OT forcing it to be the MT simply because holmgang is short cooldown still, vengeance has damage to it, and equillibrium is pretty darn good.

The way the class works is also flat. WAR damage is reliant on if crit is scaled well at the time of use, its a new expansion which means crit is sub-optimal right now and DH is better so WAR is going to faulter till the next raid tier if crit overtakes DH. Party wise WAR is only great with MNK specifically (unless they changed brotherhood). Dragoons WAR gets very little out of battle litany, Bards we get basically nothing from since our DH is supposed to be bad, and ninjas require us to save fell cleaves for every other trick attack.

WAR at this point in time is only not the worst tank simply because DRK is in such a bad spot. Fix DRK and WAR is now the weakest tank. Sure its good for progging with... but after that point you will want to run a different tank for optimization. Personally I find that off since WAR has been the beserker tank which one would assume would mean its the tank you bring in for high risk high reward.