Shadowbringers is the best FF anything in years

[Kaedan]

Heavensward was better.

Heavensward was certainly very good, but could you explain this opinion in more detail? Because I really struggle to find what HW did better than ShB (despite being the best expansion until ShB).

[Vahlnir]

I'm sensing that the general consensus on SB though, is that no one will claim it was their favorite by a mile. XD

I wouldn't call the story in Stormblood bad. I think it was at least half decent. The problem was that it felt rushed since we had 2 different nations to focus on and one was essentially an afterthought (Ala Mhigo). The post launch story wasn't bad either but I wouldn't call it great. Imo, it only really got good in the lead up to Shadowbringers which was pretty much the final 2 patches. For me at least, the story wasn't what left a sour taste in my mouth. It was Eureka.

[Edax]

Heavensward was certainly very good, but could you explain this opinion in more detail? Because I really struggle to find what HW did better than ShB (despite being the best expansion until ShB).

I maybe repeating myself here, but I found the Dragonsong War more of a relevant story in today's world. I viewed the dragons as an allegory for those grudges people have against crimes or wars of nations and races that happened generations ago. People in China and Korea are still very bitter over what happened in WW2, it may still end up sparking a war. It's a timely message to not hold generational grudges.

I found it all more topical then a villain who argues for mass genocide whom I've seen hundreds of times now. Sephiroth tries to destroy the world because he think he's an Ancient and he's repulsed by "humanity". That sounds an awful lot like Emet, it's almost a Final Fantasy cliché.

Also Heavensward had Estinien, Lady Iceheart and Alphinaud's redemption arc. Shadowbringers however, doesn't really put the WoL or Scions through a character arc, it's only Emet who goes through a negative character arc, which is just a rehashing of FFVII. Even Lord Vauthry feels like a repeat of Don Corneo, they even have the same haircut and hedonistic lifestyle. I won't say Shadowbringers is bad (I think it's really good), but Heavensward (imo) is better. The characters were more dynamic, had viewpoints that changed and the conflict was driven by humanity's flaws instead of god-like super beings or supernatural calamities.

[Kaedan]

I maybe repeating myself here, but I found the Dragonsong War more of a relevant story in today's world. I viewed the dragons as an allegory for those grudges people have against crimes or wars of nations and races that happened generations ago. People in China and Korea are still very bitter over what happened in WW2, it may still end up sparking a war. It's a timely message to not hold generational grudges.

I found it all more topical then a villain who argues for mass genocide whom I've seen hundreds of times now. Sephiroth tries to destroy the world because he think he's an Ancient and he's repulsed by "humanity". That sounds an awful lot like Emet, it's almost a Final Fantasy cliché.

Also Heavensward had Estinien, Lady Iceheart and Alphinaud's redemption arc. Shadowbringers however, doesn't really put the WoL or Scions through a character arc, it's only Emet who goes through a negative character arc, which is just a rehashing of FFVII. Even Lord Vauthry feels like a repeat of Don Corneo, they even have the same haircut and hedonistic lifestyle. I won't say Shadowbringers is bad (I think it's really good), but Heavensward (imo) is better. The characters were more dynamic, had viewpoints that changed and the conflict was driven by humanity's flaws instead of god-like super beings or supernatural calamities.

Fair enough.

I guess I don't really agree with HW being an allegory for anything in RL, but you see it differently, so to each their own. IMO, if you see HW as a RL allegory, then ShB can be seen that way as well with certain "extremely powerful entities" seemingly going out of their way to destroy the world.

The one thing I'm going to have to object to though is that there are most definitely character arcs for the WoL/D and the Scions in ShB. The stuff with Ardbert is of particular relevance, and especially Thancred has some pretty major character building (Y'shtola as well, and Urianger too). I will admit that the twins take a bit more of a backseat in the character building department in ShB.

[Edax]

Fair enough.

I guess I don't really agree with HW being an allegory for anything in RL, but you see it differently, so to each their own. IMO, if you see HW as a RL allegory, then ShB can be seen that way as well with certain "extremely powerful entities" seemingly going out of their way to destroy the world.

The one thing I'm going to have to object to though is that there are most definitely character arcs for the WoL/D and the Scions in ShB. The stuff with Ardbert is of particular relevance, and especially Thancred has some pretty major character building (Y'shtola as well, and Urianger too). I will admit that the twins take a bit more of a backseat in the character building department in ShB.

Can't say Urianger has changed that much, he doesn't act all that differently then when he did in SB. Same with Y'shtola, although she seems a little more manic(?) But I not sure if that's a result of character development or if the lifestream has affected her head. It does not appear to be from the result of a character arc. And Thancred is so inconsistent between AAR, HW, SB and ShB that I'm at a loss for what his character even is. Strangely enough, the Warriors of Light from the First seemed to have more of a character arc in ShB then the Scions despite being dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Theodric]

The one thing I'm going to have to object to though is that there are most definitely character arcs for the WoL/D and the Scions in ShB. The stuff with Ardbert is of particular relevance, and especially Thancred has some pretty major character building (Y'shtola as well, and Urianger too). I will admit that the twins take a bit more of a backseat in the character building department in ShB.

Firmly agreed. The character arcs in Shadowbringers have been a delight to watch unfold. I was always very lukewarm towards many of the Scions though this time around I came to care for all of them. Even the minor characters along the way had a lot of personality this time around. Though I suppose when someone is eager to try and constantly draw parallels between real world atrocities and fictional events they're going to praise whatever expansion reinforces their world views the most!

[Edax]

Though I suppose when someone is eager to try and constantly draw parallels between real world atrocities and fictional events they're going to praise whatever expansion reinforces their world views the most!

I disagree. I appreciate quality writing. Super natural calamities and super-beings devolve stories into Deus ex Machina or Diabolus ex Machina. These thing only happen when the writers are being very lazy or have wrote themselves into a corner because they didn't think things through. It's not about reinforcing world views, it's about how stories should have some basis in reality, otherwise you could have a 5-year old write the story.

[Theodric]

I disagree. I appreciate quality writing. Super natural calamities and super-beings devolve stories into Deus ex Machina or Diabolus ex Machina. These thing only happen when the writers are being very lazy or have wrote themselves into a corner because they didn't think things through. It's not about reinforcing world views, it's about how stories should have some basis in reality, otherwise a 5-year could have wrote the story.

I'd consider Shadowbringers to be quality writing. It's also been praised by both critics and players alike far beyond anything that has come before it. It may not be a story to your personal preference though for many it is the best the game has ever been. Whether it continues to operate on a high note is the real test, though. We'll have to see how the first part of the Eden story plays out tomorrow, for instance.

[Edax]

I'd consider Shadowbringers to be quality writing. It's also been praised by both critics and players alike far beyond anything that has come before it. It may not be a story to your personal preference though for many it is the best the game has ever been. Whether it continues to operate on a high note is the real test, though. We'll have to see how the first part of the Eden story plays out tomorrow, for instance.

I consider Shadowbringers to be quality writing too. And you didn't need to insinuate that I needed my worldview reinforced. I considered that to be a slanderous insult.

[Theodric]

I consider Shadowbringers to be quality writing too. And you didn't need to insinuate that I needed my worldview reinforced. I considered that to be a slanderous insult.

It was a general statement, not aimed at anyone in particular.