Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[kidalutz]

I've been seeing a lot of things lately.

For example on Titania Ex learning, we had a rdm that did under DPS then the MT and WHM. Upon looking at rotation they didn't know how to melee combo. Meaning they didn't once melee combo the whole fight.

So It wasn't good.

Furthermore, I've also run into tanks who don't know how to Shirk or Invul at 80 on Innocent Ex. I feel like there should be another hall available for higher levels that jump so they learn the basics of their class.

It's kind of scary.
Pls help SE.

the message a body comes into as soon as they log back in after the skip potion is the suggestion to hall of novice. NO sorry NOTHING should be Mandatory but it's right there in the text

PS A Hall wouldnt do any good players didnt know how to switch LONG before level skip was available.

[NanaWiloh]

There is and always will be bad players and as long as there are bad players these type of discussions will continue.

[Kaethra]

I think some of these expected things are a bit much, stuff people do in ex and savage raids arnt things SE can help teach you. Those things come with practice and failing at something.

People always talk about rage quitters but most new/jump potion people I’ve run into take advice well and try to incorporate it.

Hall of Novice is enough but when is it time for SE to stop being held responsible for how bad players are becoming because jump potion or not there are even worse veteran players and what’s their excuse?

This.

And this was said earlier, and I'm going to explain why THIS is actually the problem:

Its nonsense to believe that 100% of bad players will stay bad players. Beside, not everyone knows about platforms such as discord to get information about proper Jobs, Rotations and Openers.
We need something in game to actually provide more information on jobs, mechanics, skill chains, status buffs/ debuffs and so on.
Why would I need to tell people to Google about their job instead of directing them to the Hall of Novice, which can be more fun instead of reading a wall of text.

So here's the problems. First bad players don't become good players. Why? Because being a bad player is NOT synomonous with a new player. New players can be bad. They can also be good. When I first did Holminster Reach for example. I was a new player to that dungeon. I got hit by mechanics that I've never encountered before. What makes me good and not bad? Well its not as simple as staying out of mechanics.

You need to adjust yourself on the fly. And this is where automated tutorials fail. They cannot and will NEVER be able to account for every situation and class. The only way to learn Holminster Reach is to do it. That's right the content we play is already the tutorial. And the Trust system isn't a failsafe either. Those NPCs play differently than players. MUCH diffferently. I've played through the entire MSQ and did every Trust. Those NPCs are not on the same level as players, not even close.

But back to what makes a good player. You can do the mechanics, and you do things that are not asinine. That means you don't be a jerk. Tutorials cannot teach ethics or morality. That's what parenting is for. And well we're all already adults or young adults so you either have this or you don't. This comes into play in the dungeon on the second boss, when you get the numbered markerts. You don't put someone between one marker and the other. Bad players will do this for the lulz. No tutorial is going to teach people not to troll. The second is during the chained up phase on the last boss. Bad players will ignore the chained player and let the rest of the group handle it or let them die.

'b-b-but new players won't know to do this!'

Yeah that's why you all stop being bad players and actually start teaching them.

Imagine that. Yes you are a BAD Player if you do not teach new players how to do things. That is entirely on us as a community to fix. Not SE. We are players that should be helping players. Because that's what good players do. So stop asking for silly tutorials and take personal responsibility.

And this idea that we're telling people to use Google or Discord to learn in game stuff. I never used EITHER of those sources in this expansion. The only thing I read was the SE website showing new class abilities while the game was still in maintenance. That didn't give me much of an edge when playing my respective classes. I had to actually play them. And guess what I did? I posted my findings to my friends. I was the SOURCE of the information on the Discord I manage. I was the source of information to any new players that needed a leg up.

They didn't need a tutorial. They had me. I'm 100x better than any tutorial one of those coders can come up with. All of us are. So lets not be lazy, lets not be bad players. Help those that struggle. Don't just write them off and say "well maybe SE will fix it someday". Be part of the community, help people. Stop being jerks and keeping quiet. If some of these players are good players, just needing an ounce of help, then you all should have no issue giving them that extra push.

So don't be a bad player. Don't direct people to google, don't direct them to discord, and DO NOT direct them to some silly Hall of whatever. Do it yourselves. I'm doing it. Help me help others. If you're not going to help, then stop making these suggestions and stay out of the way.

[CazzT]

NO sorry NOTHING should be Mandatory but it's right there in the text

So learning how the job is supposed to be played should not be mandatory? Seems like a recipe for fail.

What makes me good and not bad? Well its not as simple as staying out of mechanics.

Good player = Learns from mistakes
Bad player = "i shouldn't have to do XYZ" "it's not fair!" "you don't pay my sub!" etc

Good players learn, show a willingness to learn, and don't throw a tantrum when someone tries to help them.

So don't be a bad player. Don't direct people to google, don't direct them to discord, and DO NOT direct them to some silly Hall of whatever. Do it yourselves. I'm doing it. Help me help others. If you're not going to help, then stop making these suggestions and stay out of the way.

Or, do both. Help them in game and direct them to outside resources. Don't just be a good player, be a great player. And if you don't know how to help someone in game, directing them to an outside source does not make you a bad player.

[Kaethra]

Or, do both. Help them in game and direct them to outside resources. Don't just be a good player, be a great player. And if you don't know how to help someone in game, directing them to an outside source does not make you a bad player.

You're right. Outside resources do have their place and a decent one at that.

Though this is more in reference to those who direct people to outside sources without context. Using meta savage strats on a trash pull in a 71 dungeon isn't... a great thing to do. I did see some tanks roll into and out of tank stance at the very beginning, they didn't quite understand they didn't need to do that.

One thing that made me chuckle a bit is the thought of one of these tutorials being implemented, someone did them and then a patch hits changing some abilities around. They go into a dungeon and the group is seeing some weird nonsense and when asked, they respond with.. 'well the tutorial said to do it like this.' It'd also be comical if the tutorial doesn't get updated immediately too.

But this is also why no Hall of Whatever or any tutorial will be a match or equivalent to player knowledge.

[kidalutz]

So learning how the job is supposed to be played should not be mandatory? Seems like a recipe for fail.

Good player = Learns from mistakes
Bad player = "i shouldn't have to do XYZ" "it's not fair!" "you don't pay my sub!" etc

Good players learn, show a willingness to learn, and don't throw a tantrum when someone tries to help them.

Or, do both. Help them in game and direct them to outside resources. Don't just be a good player, be a great player. And if you don't know how to help someone in game, directing them to an outside source does not make you a bad player.

I think more people learn to play thier class or a dungeouns mechanics from failing Other come to the game and simply do one class so they can do thier Crafter and Gathering classes instead yet others want to do every class/job combo it's a mixed bag but it is NOT our place to force someone to do something they either want to do it and thus practice at it or they dont and will continue to fail.

[TheForce]

This is a mess. So let's take it point by point.

Ironically, it's your reply that's the mess. There's so much wrong with this post, I'm not even going to waste my time dissecting it man. You're just not gonna sit here and try telling me there's nothing wrong with allowing people to pay their way through a game that rewards the grind as much as FF14. It literally goes against the point of the game and RPG's.

Also, please give me your excuse for why don't they have jump potions for DoH classes and DoL classes. I don't feel like levelling those up (hypothetically speaking), and we're already on the 3rd expansion. It's only fair that we should be able to level skip with those classes, I mean, hitting max level with those classes isn't a big deal anyway, just doing leves over and over...

Also, when you're done with that, give me more excuses for why there's not jump potions for every side-quest line and a jump potion for acquiring gil (so, an item that would give you something like $1 million gil for 10 bucks). Getting gil isn't a big deal in this game anyway, just spam dungeons and sell drops. Why do Jump Potions only stop at DoW level and story boosts when there's SO much more to this game than those 2 things. And lastly, explain to me why all RPG's don't have levelling jump potions, if they're the incredible boon that you keep saying they are, why are they not common practice in the RPG genre now? I'm really looking forward to seeing what you manage to come up with, because for some reason you choose to desperately defend something you know is unjust; I want to see how far you'll go.

[Kaethra]

Also, please give me your excuse for why don't they have jump potions for DoH classes and DoL classes.

They don't have to. This thread has nothing to do with the crafting system. Feel free to make a thread suggesting they add boosts for those classes though. Maybe we'll discuss the merits there.

But if you want to talk about justice, why didn't you offer to help people level so they wouldn't need the boosts in the first place? The community failed itself. That's why they exist. People weren't helping one another and those who wanted to catch up with friends were either always left behind, or had to get some sort of questionable service. So SE had to step in.

Now people in this thread are asking them to step in again. Instead of taking personal responsibility. No, you caused this problem, you get to help fix it.

[TheForce]

They don't have to. This thread has nothing to do with the crafting system. Feel free to make a thread suggesting they add boosts for those classes though. Maybe we'll discuss the merits there.

But if you want to talk about justice, why didn't you offer to help people level so they wouldn't need the boosts in the first place? The community failed itself. That's why they exist. People weren't helping one another and those who wanted to catch up with friends were either always left behind, or had to get some sort of questionable service. So SE had to step in.

Now people in this thread are asking them to step in again. Instead of taking personal responsibility. No, you caused this problem, you get to help fix it.

What are you talking about. You have absolutely no idea what I do in-game. Stop speaking as if you know everything about me. Then you even try to lecture me lol, sit down.

[Kaethra]

What are you talking about. You have absolutely no idea what I do in-game. Stop speaking as if you know everything about me. Then you even try to lecture me lol, sit down.

I don't care what you do in game. And in the effort of getting this back off the subject of crafting, I will propose a counter solution.

Anyone who is on Leviathan who is struggling with the mechanics of the 71-80 dungeons, shoot me a message. I'll work you through it. If anyone has questions about the Dancer, or Black Mage jobs, I'll give my input there (or other jobs up to about 70ish). I would offer to transfer to other servers on the datacenter but congestion makes that tricky. I'm sure some others that agree with me here will be able to fill in on other servers and data centers.

I assure that such help will be much better than any tutorial the devs could think up, or others here could suggest. We're going to be part of the solution and not simply rely on SE to help us.