Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Alleo]

@Cilia: I agree mostly with your post but I do have a question about point 5 in the Timeline cleanup:

For quite some time I too fully believed that they intended to sacrifice sentient life, maybe even the children of their own race. The problem is: I watched the talk with the shade again and he does not mention their race or sentient life at all. He says that they wanted to nuture the new life and that for some the sacrifice was already enough and no more life should be lost to Zodiark and that they should leave the protection of the star in the hands of the new life.

This last sentence of course hints more at sentient life because would you really say this if you are only talking about creatures? But sadly I cant remember any other source in the game where they said that it was their race or even the spoken ones that they wanted to sacrifice.

I am also curious why you believe that its the races of man that are already existing? I mean I dont disagree with you but I dont remember any hint in the game that the other races existed at the time...I did wonder though why they were never surprised by our look but sadly could find no evidence ingame talking about it...were the Ancient ones the only race on the planet? Were they just the superior ones and all the other races existed at the same time too? But then it would not make sense with all the talk of the ONE perfect race before the split..but if there was only one, how big is the chance that after the split the shards and the source developed the same races?

[MrThinker]

Just some other things to point out.

The Ancients did not solely reside in Amaurot. The Amaurotines knew in advance what "The Final Days" entailed, as you can find out about it during the quests, and is why the Conclave was working on the plans for Zodiark in the city's timeframe. The Screeching sound that begot the disaster is said to "wrest control of" the Ancients' creation magicks, after which things began to spiral out of control. Focused creation, as with Zodiark, was still possible.

[Daralii]

Just some other things to point out.

The Ancients did not solely reside in Amaurot. The Amaurotines knew in advance what "The Final Days" entailed, as you can find out about it during the quests, and is why the Conclave was working on the plans for Zodiark in the city's timeframe. The Screeching sound that begot the disaster is said to "wrest control of" the Ancients' creation magicks, after which things began to spiral out of control. Focused creation, as with Zodiark, was still possible.

Couple minor bits

I think it was mentioned at one point that it started in the Far East, to show how far it spread. It was also mentioned that a neighboring city("across the pond" in the English dialogue) was facing some crisis, but since it was one that the Amaurotines could seemingly help with, I don't know if it was The Final Days or not.

[EdwinLi]

Couple minor bits

I think it was mentioned at one point that it started in the Far East, to show how far it spread. It was also mentioned that a neighboring city("across the pond" in the English dialogue) was facing some crisis, but since it was one that the Amaurotines could seemingly help with, I don't know if it was The Final Days or not.

I suspect a good amount of the world's population ignored the signs that something was wrong with the world until it was too late.

Amaurot seem to be one of the places that did not ignore the signs but they jsut could not find the source of the Calamity. All of this seems to point that the Source of the Calamity just kept being out of their reach to a point the only solution left was to find a alternate means to stop it being a new Will for the Planet which lead to their only option being the summoning of Zodiark.

[kidalutz]

Couple minor bits

I think it was mentioned at one point that it started in the Far East, to show how far it spread. It was also mentioned that a neighboring city("across the pond" in the English dialogue) was facing some crisis, but since it was one that the Amaurotines could seemingly help with, I don't know if it was The Final Days or not.

uhm right in the beginning upon entering the area.

Literally the first thing you discovered upon entering the city form the Amaurotine is that they were in the final days the convocation were in deliberations about what to do to fix it.

[QT_Melon]

Hm maybe I remember it wrong, but wasnt it said that the summoners gave Hydealyn the ability to split the essence of every thing? Why would you give her something like that if you dont intent to use it?

The same reason people don't use all their skills in a job or dungeon :P

But in all seriousness. It's because she's light aspected. Her ability to split something is at her disposal. The splitting of realities was a byproduct of what she split. Not exactly that she could split/bind etc.

[Cilia]

@Cilia: I agree mostly with your post but I do have a question about point 5 in the Timeline cleanup:

For quite some time I too fully believed that they intended to sacrifice sentient life, maybe even the children of their own race. The problem is: I watched the talk with the shade again and he does not mention their race or sentient life at all. He says that they wanted to nuture the new life and that for some the sacrifice was already enough and no more life should be lost to Zodiark and that they should leave the protection of the star in the hands of the new life.

This last sentence of course hints more at sentient life because would you really say this if you are only talking about creatures? But sadly I cant remember any other source in the game where they said that it was their race or even the spoken ones that they wanted to sacrifice.

I am also curious why you believe that its the races of man that are already existing? I mean I dont disagree with you but I dont remember any hint in the game that the other races existed at the time...I did wonder though why they were never surprised by our look but sadly could find no evidence ingame talking about it...were the Ancient ones the only race on the planet? Were they just the superior ones and all the other races existed at the same time too? But then it would not make sense with all the talk of the ONE perfect race before the split..but if there was only one, how big is the chance that after the split the shards and the source developed the same races?

Most accurately...

It is not mentioned that the races of man only sprang up during / after the crisis, but according to Hythlodaeus Hydaelyn was created to make sure the "new world... belong[ed] to the lives newly born," rather than the Ancients continuing to lord over the planet and/or using those same new lives as sacrifices to Zodiark.

Hythlodaeus: "The cycle of life had begun anew, and we reconsidered the means by which we might protect it. The Convocation decided thus: we would nurture our world until it was bursting with vitality. Then, when the time was right, we would offer some portion of its living energy to Zodiark... In return, He would restore to us those brethren whose souls had fed His strength, and together we would resume our role as stewards. There were, however, those who disagreed with this plan. They argued that enough had been sacrificed to Zodiark - that this new world should belong to the lives newly born. These dissidents surrendered their life energies in the creation of Hydaelyn, an incarnation of their opposing belief. And for the first time in history, our people stood divided..."

The original plan was just to offer up some of the "planet's living energy" (re: aether) to Zodiark, which presumably would have included culling the race(s) of man. While it may not have been intended to sacrifice the whole of man in the beginning, that has very much become the intent of the Ascians:

Emet-Selch: "Once the rejoining of worlds is complete, Zodiark will regain His full strength and shatter His prison. Then we shall offer up the Source's remaining inhabitants in sacrifice, that we might resurrect our brethren who died to bring Zodiark into existence."

Whether the races of man already existed in their myriad forms, whether the intent was to protect them or just stop sacrifices to Zodiark, whether the original plan was just to kill some of man... the point is the Ascians fully intend to commit genocide on the races of man to bring back their dead. Hydaelyn's exists solely to prevent such slaughter and genocide, so "Kill Hydaelyn to put the reins of history in the hands of man!" doesn't make any sense.

Not targeted at you, just a general critique of the #NeitherPrimal stance.

To add one last key point:

• Hydaelyn is not the will or embodiment of the Light; she is simply a primal aspected to that element. Her power to split apart and bind Zodiark stems entirely from that elemental affinity. Like all primals she presumably feeds on aether, but it's ambiguous right now how she is sating that hunger; she has either usurped Zodiark's position as the "will of the star" (and thus serves as the planet's font of aether, not a consumer of it) or isn't summoned and is currently in the aetherial plane only.

[JeanneOrnitier]

Hm, contemplation regarding the last zone.

The lore book says the Agelyss Wise, the ruined road in eastern La Noscea, is hypothesized to have been ancient even when Allag was around. Now there's a lot of history before Allag so it could still be anything, but given the proximity to where Amaurot would be on the Source (since Kholuscia=Vylbrand), maybe the Agelyss Wise is Amaurotine?

[Dualblade]

Hm, contemplation regarding the last zone.

The lore book says the Agelyss Wise, the ruined road in eastern La Noscea, is hypothesized to have been ancient even when Allag was around. Now there's a lot of history before Allag so it could still be anything, but given the proximity to where Amaurot would be on the Source (since Kholuscia=Vylbrand), maybe the Agelyss Wise is Amaurotine?

Ten characters and more for a short reply.

Its a possibility given that Amauroten materials are supposed to be very resilient. Even with all the Calamities destroying most of them too our understanding it could be that some survived but not in a state that we could recognize beyond "older than Allagan".

[Alleo]

Just some other things to point out.

The Ancients did not solely reside in Amaurot. The Amaurotines knew in advance what "The Final Days" entailed, as you can find out about it during the quests, and is why the Conclave was working on the plans for Zodiark in the city's timeframe. The Screeching sound that begot the disaster is said to "wrest control of" the Ancients' creation magicks, after which things began to spiral out of control. Focused creation, as with Zodiark, was still possible.

About your points:

Yes I agree with that. In one side quest they also discussed about helping other cities or if they should solve their problems alone. This also hints at Ancient ones living outside Amaurot too. And there is one speech bubble NPC that question if it was the right decision to become a citizen of Amaurot.

My problem is just: Were they the only ones or did the other races live side by side with them too? Maybe there is some dialogue ingame that I missed, or it could of course all just be speculation.

The same reason people don't use all their skills in a job or dungeon :P

But in all seriousness. It's because she's light aspected. Her ability to split something is at her disposal. The splitting of realities was a byproduct of what she split. Not exactly that she could split/bind etc.

Hm was it ever stated that by being light aspected gave her the power to split? I watched a couple of cutscenes again and Elidibus said that it was the power that her summoners gave her thus its seems to hint that it was intended to be used that way. (Maybe because they knew that they could not defeat him in a direct fight)

@Cilia: Thanks for your answer:

I saw it like that too. That the new life born is sentient life even though I believed that it might have been lifes of newborn Ancient ones. Like they were so stuck in the past and wanted the old ones back that they were ready to sacrifice their own future people to it. Maybe it was a bit of both? I just wonder where the other races came from then..did they already exist? Were they a byproduct of Zodiark healing the planet? Might we even be a creation of the Ancient ones that somehow got souls?

I mean it makes sense that either the Ancient ones already had different races and just wore these robes to conceal it or that the other races lived next to them but maybe already less powerful? But at the same time Emet talks about how there was no death at that time (at least through old age because we saw that they could die quite easly too), that it was only thanks to the split that this started which is probably why he also sees us as lesser beings, so were the other races also immortal? So many questions...and I hope we do get at least some answers to that.