Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[NessaWyvern]

I was in the lvl 71 dungeon, and had a tank that kept losing threat, and a WHM that didn't know what the stack marker meant. Fun times.

Or another, where the healer stood in all aoes and died, and then we wiped, but for some reason the tank apologised for the wipe, and the healer said NP? Like dude, that was on the healer, not you, and the healer didn't even try to correct you XD poor tank.

[CazzT]

If a skip potion would have a tag at all, it would be Pay 4 Time (p4t). As you pay extra to save yourself the time of playing the content yourself.

Well, if we're going to play the semantics game, then buying gear is "saving time". Saving the time of having run the content over and over until you get the tomes and/or drops to get the gear.

[Evergrey]

Well, if we're going to play the semantics game, then buying gear is "saving time". Saving the time of having run the content over and over until you get the tomes and/or drops to get the gear.

Well, you are not wrong.
The term p2w comes from when people can buy items ingame that can't be obtained if you don't pay with real cash for them and the items are better than anything obtainable ingame.
So therefor you pay to win over others in a way non-paying people can get.
Buying gear that easily (depending on how you look at it) can and will be replaces isn't p2w. Atleast not in my standards of what p2w stands for.
But we are all different and look at things differenrtly.
But honestly. People throw out the p2w about anything these days.

[CazzT]

Well, you are not wrong.
The term p2w comes from when people can buy items ingame that can't be obtained if you don't pay with real cash for them and the items are better than anything obtainable ingame.
So therefor you pay to win over others in a way non-paying people can't get.
Buying gear that easily (depending on how you look at it) can and will be replaces isn't p2w. Atleast not in my standards of what p2w stands for.
But we are all different and look at things differenrtly.
But honestly. People throw out the p2w about anything these days.

I agree that many people mislabel many things as P2W. But I really can't see what else level skip potions could be categorized as. I usually don't point this out because a disturbingly large portion of the MMO community seems OK with this type of P2W. Nevermind that it essentially degrades the experience for everyone (yes, even the person who skipped, because they're gonna get yelled at for not knowing how to play the class).
I've never understood the appeal of level skip potions. I've only ever used one and that because it came free with a WoW expansion and I didn't want to spend $25 for a race change. I just deleted that max level character, made a new one, and used that free pot. I've never used one since. I still have 2 or 3 sitting on my WoW account (which will never get touched again).

[Bsrking5]

Does it matter if it's p2w or not. No, they bypass leveling and thus have no experience with how any mechanics work. Thus they fail and become a npc for other players to babysit, ruining their experience. Mandatory hall of veterans for level 50 content and above to be completed before they can use the duty finder for said content.

[HyoMinPark]

I agree that many people mislabel many things as P2W. But I really can't see what else level skip potions could be categorized as. I usually don't point this out because a disturbingly large portion of the MMO community seems OK with this type of P2W. Nevermind that it essentially degrades the experience for everyone (yes, even the person who skipped, because they're gonna get yelled at for not knowing how to play the class).

To be fair, there are players that level their jobs "the right way" and still don't know what their buttons do. I don't really find jump potions degrading to my experience - at least, not any less than the players who didn't jump and who don't understand how to play their job.

I don't see them as P2W simply because I don't think anything is really being "won". Now, if there was a "2,000 of the latest tomestones" package on the Mogstation, I'd classify that as P2W. Because then a player actually has an advantage. Jumping a job not even to cap isn't an inherent advantage.

I've never understood the appeal of level skip potions. I've only ever used one and that because it came free with a WoW expansion and I didn't want to spend $25 for a race change. I just deleted that max level character, made a new one, and used that free pot. I've never used one since. I still have 2 or 3 sitting on my WoW account (which will never get touched again).

I bought an ARR skip for one of my alts because I've done ARR multiple times at this point, and it was on sale. The appeal for me was that I didn't have to play through the slowest part of the MSQ for the umpteenth time. Some people use job jumps on alt characters because they don't want to relevel a job from 1 to cap - especially if the alt is there to be a raiding alt. Personally, I don't buy job skips because I don't mind leveling, but what others do with their money is ultimately up to them.

Does it matter if it's p2w or not. No, they bypass leveling and thus have no experience with how any mechanics work. Thus they fail and become a npc for other players to babysit, ruining their experience. Mandatory hall of veterans for level 50 content and above to be completed before they can use the duty finder for said content.

There are players who haven't skipped that still don't understand how a stack marker work. This was a thing long before jump potions were ever offered.

[DonovanLifeweaver]

Ask yourself: Do you think a person who payed to skip is doing better than you in performance, in a way you wouldn't be able to unless you too payed for a skip?
If not it's not p2w.
If he would be better than you in a way you can't unless you also payed, it is p2w.

If a skip potion would have a tag at all, it would be Pay 4 Time (p4t). As you pay extra to save yourself the time of playing the content yourself.

pay for time pay to win, sugar coating the fact that you paid to win 50 levels is not going to change that fact.

no matther how you name it if you spend money to get better or further its pay to win.

not happy: wow eso and EQ are your new suggested homes

[SilverObi]

There will always be players that can't be bothered to learn or give two hoots in hell about their performance or how it affects others, if jump potions didn't exist there would still be these problems. Can they exacerbate it? Possibly but unconfirmed due to personal biases. We had these same complaints in XI when Abyssea arrived and people could PL themselves to cap just standing around opening coffers but surprise there too, the people who wanted to learn and get better did regardless of HOW they attained their level. All the guidance in the world doesn't help those who don't want to learn in the first place

[Evergrey]

-snip-

I don't really understand the appeal either.
Just like you I've used free boosts in WoW. Mostly on other servers boosting my main class so I can play with other people. Or perhaps go on a PvP server.
But that doesn't matter now since PvP servers themselves are gone.
Anyway, back on topic.

Personally I think that alot of people using a skip potion are people who already played FFXIV before, or even people who play right now.
Perhaps they have new/old friends on a different server/data and don't want to transfer there.
So they use skips to boost their Main job so they can play together.
It could also be people that find how long the questing in FFXIV really is, with cutscenes and filler quests between expansions is too much.
I completely understand people who say that they get bored as progress just seems to halt when you reach one of those points.
The story can be good for sure, but if it tends to drag out too long it will create downtimes which alot of people might not find enjoyable.
Especially when thinking about the time being "wasted" doing so.
That is something I think about when not playing an MMO I have payed a subscription for.
Just taking a day not playing can feel like a huge waste since it's money you spent not being used.
FFXIV is said to have great endgame content like EX Primal, Savage Raids etc.
Things that alot of endgamers strive for when playing an MMO.
But being locked from all that due to all the quests one have to struggle through.
It's not uncommon that MMO players don't play for the story. Alot play just for the endgame parts. The progressions of the difficult stuff.

I don't know if I would be able to play FFXIV if I started right now.
I'm happy I played back when Darklight armor was top tier.
Because I have progressed the story in a pace of it getting released and never had to feel that I was locked behind tons of quests to reach 1-2-3 expansions of content.
I think that for each expansion FFXIV releases it will just be harder and harder for new people to start and enjoy the game. Unless they really do play for the story and don't feel the need to rush for endgame.
That is also a thing I've seen. When people ask about an older MMO they tend to ask "is it too late to start playing now?".
Alot of people have the mentallity that one might be so far behind in progress and economy that it's not even worth start playing.
And with how long it takes to reach endgame in FFXIV and "catch up" with the rest. It can really discourage alot of people to continue and give it a real try.

those are some of my thoughts of why some people feel the appeal/need for a skip.

[Evergrey]

pay for time pay to win, sugar coating the fact that you paid to win 50 levels is not going to change that fact.

no matther how you name it if you spend money to get better or further its pay to win.

not happy: wow eso and EQ are your new suggested homes

Still don't see what anyone wins by doing so.
Do they get shiny items not able to be obtained ingame without skipping?
Do they get a special achivement/title showing they are better than others who played the game?
If you think levels = winning, I don't know what to feel about your values.
Sorry.


Edit due to updated post:

I do play ESO aswell. That is my main MMO right now since I took my break from FFXIV almost 2 years ago. I kinda burned out on FFXIV after playing it nonstop for like 3-4 years.
Back here for the expansion and the story/new content.