Need a Hall of Veteran for skip potion players.

[xbahax92]

The old way would be... kick underperforming players and let them think what they did wrong. Thats how it was used to be in ARR, thats how it still should be. People wont change their performance unless they hit the first "blockade". And thats where I would put the Hall of Veteran in use.

[Evergrey]

do like me laugh. if they complain laugh even harder. they insult you? remind them that payto win is not the way to learn how to play ff14 and keep laughing

Skip potions isn't p2w though.

[HyoMinPark]

I've been seeing a lot of things lately.

For example on Titania Ex learning, we had a rdm that did under DPS then the MT and WHM. Upon looking at rotation they didn't know how to melee combo. Meaning they didn't once melee combo the whole fight.

So It wasn't good.

Furthermore, I've also run into tanks who don't know how to Shirk or Invul at 80 on Innocent Ex. I feel like there should be another hall available for higher levels that jump so they learn the basics of their class.

It's kind of scary.
Pls help SE.

While I’m not against something to try and get those who skip to familiarize themselves with their skills and tooltips, are you certain that the players you got jumped? Are you certain they weren’t just bad players? There are plenty of bad players out there who never touched a skip potion—sadly, I don’t think a Hall would help them, but they do exist.

Just I've been to Expert Roulettes where People don't even aoe adds. Like they single target kill a whole group of things and I'm like. . . .

Yeeeah, this isn’t an issue exclusive to those who jump. A lot of people are allergic to their AOE rotations—before Shadowbringers, it was “They cost too much MP/TP” or “It’s boring pressing one button over and over again” (this one was really common from RDMs in SB).


The types of play you’ve described existed well before jump potions were ever a thing.

[Mirakumi]

do like me laugh. if they complain laugh even harder. Do they insult you? remind them that payto win is not the way to learn how to play ff14 and keep laughing

Actually, these players are usually quite the opposite. You try to tell them something and they just are silent the whole run.
So there's no real interaction. I noticed this when leveling my SCH. Where tanks are popping all cooldowns at same time and I usually tell them one will get the job done. So no need to pop vengeance and rampart at same time.
I have met some people who will generally listen but the others that underperform really are just tunneling hard or ignore the advice.

But I've never felt the need to laugh at a player underperforming just I've always tried to slip in, maybe some AOE? so that way the tank isn't taking so much damage.

I don't blame players who skip potion with the amount of lore they have to do to catch up, but they should at least be put under some kind of mandatory training. Just to let them know, that Verthunder 2 -> Impact is a thing instead of watching someone jolt 2 jolt 2 jolt 2 jolt 2.

While I’m not against something to try and get those who skip to familiarize themselves with their skills and tooltips, are you certain that the players you got jumped? Are you certain they weren’t just bad players?

Yes their profile shows that RDM for example is their only class to 80 with another job like pld at level 1

[Feronar]

I personally think they should require new players to have at least one character that meets the following requirements before they can boost:
- Level 20 disciple of war or disciple of magic, with its class quests completed up to that point.
- Hall of the Novice completed.
- Progress the main story campaign up through the quest "My Little Chocobo" at level 20.

Once those requirements are met on a single character, they can boost any character on their account, even a newly created level 1. The boosted character doesn't necessarily have to be the same one that meets the requirements listed above, it simply needs to be on the same account. It would ensure that any boosted players:
- Know some of the basics of how to play the game.
- Know that they aren't locked to a single class like in other MMORPGs, they can change it by learning that class and equipping a weapon for that class.
- Know about ability combo rotations.
- Have experienced at least 3 different dungeons and 1 trial.
- Know about grand companies.
- Have acquired their company chocobo mount.

[MrKusakabe]

I was in Chrysalis or whatever that trial is called. The one where you gotta alternate between the red and green orbs and then you get sucked into the inverted world. I think it's a Level 50 trial.

Usually, one or two - me included - do slight fails here and there, for example running into the wrong orbs twice or running into the explosion radius of the same orb by accident. These things show basic knowledge, just screwing up a bit. But there was this one run I thought is absolutely terrible, an absolute clown fiesta:

One tank was dead pretty much like 30 seconds into the fight. None of my two healers cared, so he lied there in the dust. What a great start. We all took arena-wide damage as usual, and normally, you (get) heal(ed) trough that. Did not happen. I could watch our all health bars go down slowly. Average party health: 80%, 60%, 40%... Both the WHM and the AST did nothing but spam-heal the one tank alive. Suddenly, the AST died, too. Now the orb phase started, and the others were running around as if this a bumper car arena. Some bobs caused red orb explosions while I had a stack of it, and due to our low health, they basically suicide-bombed them and their nearby team members. The WHM died and I could see that more and more of the party HP bars turned grey. It was me and some other DPS as well as the tank alive that moment.. I just sat down and died... (The tank that died in the beginning just laid there for like 5 minutes)

Retry! This time, the run was eventually worse. No heal for us all, we basically slowly died by arena-wide damage blasts. The one tank dead again... Then it was me that raised the voice, and the second layer of the clown fiesta started:

* The surviving tank had no/the wrong stance that caused low emnity and the reason why random DPS players died
* The AST did not know about AoE heals, the WHM had to heal the one tank as the AST sucked
* However, that tank that always died had LESS HP than I had as Red Mage
* My fellow damage dealers were behaving like monkeys when you make loud noises

This would be a story for the "Duty Finder Venting" thread, but it is not about player behaviour, but people that most likely skipped so much they failed to understand the game. I wish I had screenshots as evidence, because it reeked of skip potion'd players. So much no-skill would be filtered out during normal gameplay, but if you skip these natural filter mechanics, you have unfiltered noob* players in your dungeons...

* I rarely use this word, but they were actual noobs.

[...] a rdm that did under DPS then the MT and WHM. [...] Meaning they didn't once melee combo the whole fight. [...]

How do you know about "damage"? Are you using a parser? Or do you mean emnity?Because the emnity list is pretty wonky often -- and, in your case ironically, a bad WHM is actually in front of a RDM when it comes to aggro because a bad healer will draw more aggro quickly.

And even if the Red Mage just uses Ranged Magic, he should always deal more damage than a WHM or tank, no? (I am not sure about this for sure, though. Do WHM so much damage that it outdamages the weakest RDM spells - mind the Dualcast in that. I am genuinenely curious!)

Anyways:
I had a flowchart at my hand for the first fights to get used to the alternation between Ranged Magic, building up balanced mana and then utilize the now-red mana to slash my foes with my sword in melee. This is mostly muscle memory, and a bit observation when to go into melee. You will see me also cast magic despite having full red mana when I know melee would be too dangerous in near future.

But still, these dungeons, quests and trials skipped via the skip potions means a lot of this muscle memory/observation/understanding your profession is lost obviously. Because sooner or later, you will see how the emnity amongst the DPS changes in the favour of the Red Mage when going into melee is something you can only learn by doing. And if said player misses this crucial part not only of playing this beautiful profession, but also the crucial part of being a damage dealer, it is obvious there was never a need before - hence the skip potion symptoms..

I am all for some sort of test. Skip potions are terrible. Endgame is fine - for people ready for it. Instant gratification for lazy people may put us regular players with more experience in these miserable situations...

Sincerely,

[HyoMinPark]

Yes their profile shows that RDM for example is their only class to 80 with another job like pld at level 1

That... doesn't really mean much. Some people only want to level one job on a character. And you're certain they only had a level 1 GLA (can't have a level 1 PLD)? Because you said, "for example".

They could have been an alt for all we really know. I have alts with only one job unlocked because there's no point in me leveling all of them. Doing that on one character is enough as it is.

I guess my main issue with your argument is that bad players = jump potion user. The reality is more likely that bad player = just a bad player. Skipping doesn't equate to being bad. Like I said before: the types of play you've described here has existed well before jumps were ever a thing.

random potion player pays real cash top buy a class 50 potion
me: did oyu pay to win your 50 levels?
random potion player: stfu! i know what im doing
me: laughs and watch a potion tank lose aggro to eos
random potion player: i didnt pay to win my levels...
me: picks up the corpse of eos and summons selene for the hell of watching a potion tank fail again

That's still not pay to win. What are they winning by jumping to level 50.

[DonovanLifeweaver]

Skip potions isn't p2w though.

random potion player pays real cash top buy a class 50 potion
me: did oyu pay to win your 50 levels?
random potion player: stfu! i know what im doing
me: laughs and watch a potion tank lose aggro to eos
random potion player: i didnt pay to win my levels...
me: picks up the corpse of eos and summons selene for the hell of watching a potion tank fail again

[Mirakumi]

x[/IMG]

Right now whitemage's "damage" is very strong. I can solo heal Extremes so usually, I ask the 2nd healer to DPS. But it should not EVER be able to out "damage" a red mage. The red mage I was describing wore AF gear, and all caster accessories from expert dungeons. So they were a little weaker than most damage dealing classes.

I personally wasn't parsing but another person in discord said the RDM in question pulled 5.0 flat and the WHM pulled 5.5.

[Evergrey]

random potion player pays real cash top buy a class 50 potion
me: did oyu pay to win your 50 levels?
random potion player: stfu! i know what im doing
me: laughs and watch a potion tank lose aggro to eos
random potion player: i didnt pay to win my levels...
me: picks up the corpse of eos and summons selene for the hell of watching a potion tank fail again

Ask yourself: Do you think a person who payed to skip is doing better than you in performance, in a way you wouldn't be able to unless you too payed for a skip?
If not it's not p2w.
If he would be better than you in a way you can't unless you also payed, it is p2w.

If a skip potion would have a tag at all, it would be Pay 4 Time (p4t). As you pay extra to save yourself the time of playing the content yourself.