Healers in the new expansion

[Dynia]

1.) Ignoring DPS is a huge error, as once healing reaches a certain point (that point being "people aren't dying anymore yay!")...improvement doesn't stop...it takes form in the method of buffs (which AST has couple of, and SCH has exactly one every two minutes)...and...wait for it...DPS.

2.) On actual numbers right now, the median WHM outheals the median SCH by about 3%, and outDPS's the median SCH by about 14%. In the event that you're one of those 'don't use the median use the top for optimization' people...the top WHM outheals the top SCH by about 8%, and outDPS's the top SCH by about 21% in current EX trials. Granted, that's only across about 40,000 parses for scholars and 50,000 parses for WHM, but it gives a good picture.

3.) WHM arguably has more versatility than SCH as well, particularly in not having the majority of their actions tied to the lily system (that's what it's like tying everything to Aetherflow for SCH)...and being able to charge the lily system (a) automatically and (b) out of combat (SCH can do neither). As I understand, AST are in a similarly bad spot, but I can't personally speak to that much myself (due to not playing AST yet since 5.0)...but for SCH, I most definitely can. In fact, having leveled SCH all the way this expansion already, and doing some time with WHM as well, I can even say that WHM simply FLOWS better...not only does it put out big numbers, it feels good to play...SCH does not.

The only reason that AST and SCH even have a place in the meta right now (and even that might not last) is the fact that WHM only has one shield.

2. whm SHOULD outheal SCH cause don't have aoe shields and outdamage sch cause have 0 utility, finally things works like it should and this number aren't that big, finally whm aren't trash kicked from every raid

[tesni_g]

2. whm SHOULD outheal SCH cause don't have aoe shields and outdamage sch cause have 0 utility, finally things works like it should and this number aren't that big, finally whm aren't trash kicked from every raid

So what I'm hearing is a lot of emotion in this discussion. "Finally WHM aren't trashed kicked"

I'm glad you're enjoying your experience. WHM feels powerful. I've enjoyed leveling it so far, despite the expectation that I wouldn't. Honestly, those numbers cited are quite a bit closer than I expected, as well.

But so this thread has taken some rather weird turns. "SCH IS KING" "actually it's not, here's legit numbers" "BUT BUT WORKING AS INTENDED, WHM FOREVAH."

AST is struggling. And if a common knee-jerk reaction is "suck it, you were gods in SB so enjoy your trash kick this expac lol" then it's going to be very hard to find common ground in this discussion.

I'm sorry you were hurt before. It's not fun to have your favorite class get left behind. But trash kicked? I played WHM quite a bit in SB and never once encountered anything so toxic. WHM had decent representation in raids and high end content all throughout SB. The least-represented healer, yes, but still we saw far more WHMs than we ever saw DRKs. That isn't "trash kicked from every raid" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm of the belief that past pain and mistakes don't need to be repeated for the sake of causing more pain. There doesn't need to be a bastard child of healing so that AST and SCH can know "how hard it was for WHM". SE isn't trying to fix healing in the ways I personally would like, but they seem to realize that WHM needs to be a powerhouse in the way that BLM and SAM are powerhouses, for it to have any spot in high end content. That's all well and good.

"Finally WHM aren't trash kicked from every raid"

Great, now let's work on making sure NO ONE is trash kicked from any raid. *pets AST*

[Dynia]

So what I'm hearing is a lot of emotion in this discussion. "Finally WHM aren't trashed kicked"

I'm glad you're enjoying your experience. WHM feels powerful. I've enjoyed leveling it so far, despite the expectation that I wouldn't. Honestly, those numbers cited are quite a bit closer than I expected, as well.

But so this thread has taken some rather weird turns. "SCH IS KING" "actually it's not, here's legit numbers" "BUT BUT WORKING AS INTENDED, WHM FOREVAH."

AST is struggling. And if a common knee-jerk reaction is "suck it, you were gods in SB so enjoy your trash kick this expac lol" then it's going to be very hard to find common ground in this discussion.

I'm sorry you were hurt before. It's not fun to have your favorite class get left behind. But trash kicked? I played WHM quite a bit in SB and never once encountered anything so toxic. WHM had decent representation in raids and high end content all throughout SB. The least-represented healer, yes, but still we saw far more WHMs than we ever saw DRKs. That isn't "trash kicked from every raid" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm of the belief that past pain and mistakes don't need to be repeated for the sake of causing more pain. There doesn't need to be a bastard child of healing so that AST and SCH can know "how hard it was for WHM". SE isn't trying to fix healing in the ways I personally would like, but they seem to realize that WHM needs to be a powerhouse in the way that BLM and SAM are powerhouses, for it to have any spot in high end content. That's all well and good.

"Finally WHM aren't trash kicked from every raid"

Great, now let's work on making sure NO ONE is trash kicked from any raid. *pets AST*

maybe cause there are already threads to nerf WHM?
idk about astro now but sch doing fine equal to WHM now, ppls will take SCH over WHM any way cause have shields, that why whm need something to trade off that op shields more healing and more damage
SCH maybe heal less then whm but still give more EHP to party cause shields are just op they give like 25% EHP

[Rubiss]

maybe cause there are already threads to nerf WHM?
idk about astro now but sch doing fine equal to WHM now, ppls will take SCH over WHM any way cause have shields, that why whm need something to trade off that op shields more healing and more damage
SCH maybe heal less then whm but still give more EHP to party cause shields are just op they give like 25% EHP

No one is saying SCH isn't healing well. They're saying there's too much Aetherflow and nothing to dump it with (like say Energy Drain) and as a result, it feels like crap to play because you have to overflow on Aetherflow or overheal. Even in Ultimate Bahamut, Scholars were using like 40% of all Aetherflow on Energy Drain. Ultimate. Do you believe healing will become more intense than that at a casual level? A savage level? It won't. We will ALWAYS have too much Aetherflow. We need something to dump it on. We need risk. Our DPS numbers? We're behind WHM by like 1.5k No Scholar wants to do MORE damage. We're complaining about HOW we do damage. We don't want 1 DoT and 1 nuke for our entire rotation. It's boring.

So to summarize. Scholars are complaining about Aetherflow being clunky now and our rotation being a poor game of OSU! Haven't even touched how bad fairy feels. The oGCD skills that have a delay.

[Dynia]

No one is saying SCH isn't healing well. They're saying there's too much Aetherflow and nothing to dump it with (like say Energy Drain) and as a result, it feels like crap to play because you have to overflow on Aetherflow or overheal. Even in Ultimate Bahamut, Scholars were using like 40% of all Aetherflow on Energy Drain. Ultimate. Do you believe healing will become more intense than that at a casual level? A savage level? It won't. We will ALWAYS have too much Aetherflow. We need something to dump it on. We need risk. Our DPS numbers? We're behind WHM by like 1.5k No Scholar wants to do MORE damage. We're complaining about HOW we do damage. We don't want 1 DoT and 1 nuke for our entire rotation. It's boring.

So to summarize. Scholars are complaining about Aetherflow being clunky now and our rotation being a poor game of OSU! Haven't even touched how bad fairy feels. The oGCD skills that have a delay.

sorry but I can't understood that part "how we do damage" (if it not about damage number ?), you are HEALER not DPS class if you want more complex dps rota play summoner you will get back skills you lost on SCH
have you ever played lineage2 ? Have you ever leveled there as bishop ? Bishop had complitly 0 damage skills, you had to use dual swords and soulshots with autoattack to level up, so be glad you have one good magic atack one dot and even AOE attack there are many games i played that healersa didn't even had aoe attacks

[Gaethan_Tessula]

sorry but I can't understood that part "how we do damage" (if it not about damage number ?), you are HEALER not DPS class if you want more complex dps rota play summoner you will get back skills you lost on SCH
have you ever played lineage2 ? Have you ever leveled there as bishop ? Bishop had complitly 0 damage skills, you had to use dual swords and soulshots with autoattack to level up, so be glad you have one good magic atack one dot and even AOE attack there are many games i played that healersa didn't even had aoe attacks

I mean, if you're going to bring that up, I'm going to bring up SMT IMAGINE. Where most people offloaded healing duties onto pets and if you DID spec your mortal PC into the healing magic tree you still needed to bring and contribute 2-3 of the following: Buffs, Debuffs, Status Ailments, Crowd Control, DPS, and/or tanking/kiting.

FF14 doesn't have enough required GCD healing uptime to make a pure healer, who has nothing else to do, engaging. Every healer job, INCLUDING WHM, needs additional spells/abilities and buffs to bring overall engagement up, because Square Enix sure isn't going to take required healing uptime in casual content to a level only seen in ARR end floor Coils and StB Ultimate.

I'm fine with WHM having the highest DPS and Healing, if and only if SCH and AST fill other valid niches (buff/debuff raid utility, for starters), and all three jobs are engaging to play GCD to GCD.

[Rubiss]

sorry but I can't understood that part "how we do damage" (if it not about damage number ?), you are HEALER not DPS class if you want more complex dps rota play summoner you will get back skills you lost on SCH
have you ever played lineage2 ? Have you ever leveled there as bishop ? Bishop had complitly 0 damage skills, you had to use dual swords and soulshots with autoattack to level up, so be glad you have one good magic atack one dot and even AOE attack there are many games i played that healersa didn't even had aoe attacks

This isn't an old school MMO. If you're happy mashing 1 button for over 90% of your rotation, good. Continue to do so when/if SCH/WHM gets more DPS moves. in Lineage 2, you were also healing for most of your content. Let me know when FFXIV has me healing for most of my encounter. Maybe then I'll be slightly lax about having my rotation doable by a watering bird.

[Dynia]

This isn't an old school MMO. If you're happy mashing 1 button for over 90% of your rotation, good. Continue to do so when/if SCH/WHM gets more DPS moves. in Lineage 2, you were also healing for most of your content. Let me know when FFXIV has me healing for most of my encounter. Maybe then I'll be slightly lax about having my rotation doable by a watering bird.

You got your opinion that fine and I don't deny it, but I don't get your logic, you want more dps moves with same damage as it is now.
More dots = more damage
bio II is now:
Potency: 40
Duration: 30s

with your logic if you want 2 dots and do same damge bio II should have Potency: 20 and Miasma should have 20 potency too

and now tell me what logic is this with puting 2 dots insted 1 dot with SAME damage ?
What diffrence is when you spam Broil all the time insted casting Broil then other magic skill then other magic skill ? effect is same they are all direct damage skills, You just change animation of that spell and just need MORE buttons for it, its just annoying

I like hard games like dark souls but more buttons don't make this game harder just more annoying

Edit: That why I took WHM over black mage, no offence for class but for me when I choose fire over ice and vice versa I feel like I just change animation of skills when most of them do same effect: do direct damage and that what I find boring and that what I find boring of most dps classes in most mmos I play, that why always play as healers over 15 years in my mmo carrier is just more interseting for me

Also what complex sch dps dota has before ? cast 2 dots on 1 mob then bane then misama II and shadowflare that all, if you call this complex then I have no question :P

[RyuDragnier]

This isn't an old school MMO. If you're happy mashing 1 button for over 90% of your rotation, good. Continue to do so when/if SCH/WHM gets more DPS moves. in Lineage 2, you were also healing for most of your content. Let me know when FFXIV has me healing for most of my encounter. Maybe then I'll be slightly lax about having my rotation doable by a watering bird.

Wait, you mean the thing we did in ARR, HW, and SB as any healer? Don't kid yourself into thinking we did anything other than spam Ruin/Broil once the DoTs were on. In the case of SCH, we sat on stacks then too until Aetherflow was about to come off cooldown, at which point we spammed Energy Drain (which was at the end of every minute until level 68 happened in SB). All they did was keep us at one dot and one major attack skill, which we have spammed nonstop since ARR. Stop being delusional in thinking there was any 'complexity' in a healer's damage dealing.

[WaxSw]

sorry but I can't understood that part "how we do damage" (if it not about damage number ?), you are HEALER not DPS class if you want more complex dps rota play summoner you will get back skills you lost on SCH
have you ever played lineage2 ? Have you ever leveled there as bishop ? Bishop had complitly 0 damage skills, you had to use dual swords and soulshots with autoattack to level up, so be glad you have one good magic atack one dot and even AOE attack there are many games i played that healersa didn't even had aoe attacks

In a game where you spend 80% of the time as healer doing dps, having a boring dps rotation means that 80% of the time youre bored, thats not good design, moreover in ffxiv healers are supposed to dps, is part of your job and the better you are the more dps you do, those players deserve a good rotation not a braindead one.