[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Lauront]

Aha. Luckily for us all you’re not the arbiter of who should be concerned about what or not.

[TheLittlestLala]

If your "existence" is the equivalent of a dusty old painting, then yes, genocide IS ok.

I'm gonna frame this post and hang it by the local landfill.

[Theodric]

I don't think you even have a basic idea of what literature is. You're supposed to be concerned when you read 1984. You're supposed to be concerned when you read It Can't Happen Here. Your not suppose to disregard these books simply because they are fiction.

I'm quite well read, actually. I note that you deliberately picked out some very specific, bleak titles that just so happen to be written in a way to lack much in the way of nuance. Which is completely irrelevant in the context of FFXIV given that it is written in a way to account for nuance.

If you're looking for more settings with wonderful nuances for many of the characters then I would sorely recommend The Witcher and A Song of Ice and Fire novels. Two of my favourites, in fact!

[DevilsDontFly]

Someone please help me understand why the bad guys are never allowed to win?
Something seemed awfully wrong about the way Emet-Selch was taken out. By all accounts, he should have won.
I mean, are Ascians even evil?

The reason we are fighting the bad guys is basically because they have won many times before our arrival. The ascians completely obliterated one of the shards and turned it into a blob of floating void and dark energy. Not only that but throughout Heavensward, Stormblood and now Shadowbringers, the bad guys we fight are people that have won their battles a multitude of times, otherwise the Warrior of Light wouldn't be the last resort of hope for a lot of eorzeans. I'd say a good 75% of Norvrandt is completely consumed by light and devoid of all life, if not more, and all because the bad guys have won a battle that happened over a century ago. The shard never recovered and slowly but surely kept falling further and further into decay until we arrived to help. It's all a matter of perspective. Just because the bad guys are now starting to fall one after the other, that doesn't mean that prior to our arrival they didn't had plenty of time to prevail.

[Lauront]

I'm quite well read, actually. I note that you deliberately picked out some very specific, bleak titles that just so happen to be written in a way to lack much in the way of nuance. Which is completely irrelevant in the context of FFXIV given that it is written in a way to account for nuance.

If you're looking for more literature with wonderful nuances for many of the characters then I would sorely recommend The Witcher and A Song of Ice and Fire novels. Two of my favourites, in fact!

It’s one thing to not want to live in such a world (I don't) and quite another to be able to acknowledge both parties may have a point in a given conflict, in the story, as I do in the case of the Ascians given our current understanding. I mean am I supposed to be ‘concerned’ that some folks, like myself, enjoy factions like the Sith Empire in a fantasy setting? I don’t see why.

If you (the general "you") think that implies anything about my beliefs outside the game, the more fool you.

[Iscah]

Ah, the worst sort of literary critic. The sort that acts as if supporting a fictional character or faction is equal to doing so in the real world. To say nothing of the deliberate overlooking of nuance - of which there is much to be found in FFXIV.

By engaging with a fictional narrative, you're accepting that it's "real" within the bounds of the story - in which case it's only natural to apply your thoughts on real morality to the characters' actions. It's how we define heroes and villains (or lack thereof) within a story - we judge them by the same criteria we would if real people acted the way they do.

It's one thing to say "I can see why the character acted this way even if I don't approve of their actions" and even empathise with them because of that, but that's not the same thing as condoning it because it's "only fiction".

[Kaethra]

Before this argument gets out of hand, lets establish some constants here.


First thing, fiction is fiction. What this means is the writer(s) are justified to put a character in the story through whatever bliss, trial, hell, or whatever they wish. Not only are they justified, but as the content author, what they do within their own story is righteous. They can do no wrong and should not be judged by outsiders for it. Critiqued perhaps, but not judged. For example, if they were to kill off Thancred. They'd be justified and righteous for doing so. If it was because he broke his neck from tripping on his shoelaces, then we can critique the decision as being anticlimatic over dying in glorious battle. But we should not judge them for making the decision to kill him off if they so desired

Next thing. It is entirely possible to like and enjoy the villains of a story. We can route for them. We can revel in their actions no matter how diabolical, no matter how depraved they might be. This doesn't make us sick, it doesn't make us evil minded, it doesn't even make us weird. These villains are works of FICTION. We enjoy the villainy and heroism alike. They are apart of a story and play just as important (if not MORE important) of a part of that story as the protagonist. We can love them, we can hate them, we can even idolize them if we wish. And again it doesn't mean anything in the 'real world' outside of us enjoying a good story.

And finally and most importantly. We should not be judging each other for enjoying the story in our own ways. There's nothing concerning about people enjoying an aspect of the story. In fact the very idea that every part of the story, hero, villain, and supporting cast has readers/players who enjoy them is a Good thing. People routing for Emet is a Good thing. That means the character has relateable emotions and desires that people can understand and resonate with. It doesn't mean people want to genocide in real life. It doesn't mean people want to hurt others if given the chance.

Fiction is Fiction.
Its not wrong to enjoy Villains.
It is wrong to judge others on their enjoyment of a story.

[NanaWiloh]

I'm confused, is this an actual question?

"Why didn't square enix kill me off?" or 'Why wasn't he allowed to beat us and kill billions more?' basically?
He's already destroyed like 90% of the first and caused the void. He's done a lot of 'winning' already.

I agree the ascians wiped 7 of the 14 shards and nearly wiped out the 1st how much more winning do they need?

[Granyala]

Something seemed awfully wrong about the way Emet-Selch was taken out. By all accounts, he should have won.
I mean, are Ascians even evil?

That's the whole point.

Apart from the fact that it still amazes me we were even able to dent that thing, I cried pretty hard when he said "remember us.... remember that we one lived".
I wanted to take his hands and tell him "Trust us, we will not squander your sacrifice." and then give him a hug until he dissipates.

Ascians are not evil in the strictest sense of the word. Their macciavellian approach may appear evil to us, since we lesser races get the short end of the stick in order to bring their civilization back but their motives are completely understandable. They had a great civilization with strict ethics. Desparation, and unfathomable suffering turned Emet-Selch cruel though he wasn't heartless about it. It is clear it weighed heavily on his conscience but he saw no other way to undo what had been done.

The more important question we have to ask: would the Ascian civilization look like what we saw in Amauroth post Zodiark? How would them being his thralls affect things?

I REALLY hope that they find another solution for Elidibus than us just whacking him too. There has to be a possibility for some form of compromize.

[Lauront]

Edgy teenager post. They want to genocide entire planets. Yes they're evil and yes they need to die.

A good example of missing about 99% of the background info. I suppose one edgy teenager’s response to another.