Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[SturmChurro]

SIGH Nobody tries to bring you down at all. The majority of the attacks are from your side tbh, at least when I post, I actually state I would like them to be like male au ra, but I wouldnt midn them being femenine, and theres a lot of ppl who have this weird crazy obssesion with 'ALL MEN SHOULD BE MASCULIEN AGHHHHHHHHHHHH' and I am attacked for stating that femenine men exist, and they deserve to be represented

Why do they deserve to be represented? What makes them necessary for a game? I think the fantasy of the game; the fantasy of the races matter more. If the race is going to be shoehorned as feminine it better not clash with the lore. In the case of Viera, I think it most certainly would make no sense. There is no need for a minority quota to be in everything nowadays.

Reminds me of the "whitewashing" of viis that was going on several pages ago, that I don't think I replied to. I personally like viera as darker skinned, and I think I should have made mine a shade darker actually. I think the veena look a bit washed out for the features overall. This is purely an aesthetic preference however, I do not have ulterior motives on my mind like minority representation.

[zeylos]

Why do they deserve to be represented? What makes them necessary for a game? I think the fantasy of the game; the fantasy of the races matter more. If the race is going to be shoehorned as feminine it better not clash with the lore. In the case of Viera, I think it most certainly would make no sense. There is no need for a minority quota to be in everything nowadays.

Ok, here we go again.

Where did I say that it had to be viera? And, by that, why do masculine men need to be represented? Tbh, im not even sure if its what u actually think, or its just to be able to laugh at me, but that line is legit disgusting towards many, many ppl. Ya'll really ened to learn empathy. Oh, and, can u even believe that ppl off all shapes, forms, ways of living etc are being represented and acknowledged? What a hard world we live in my man

[SturmChurro]

Ok, here we go again.

Where did I say that it had to be viera? And, by that, why do masculine men need to be represented? Tbh, im not even sure if its what u actually think, or its just to be able to laugh at me, but that line is legit disgusting towards many, many ppl. Ya'll really ened to learn empathy. Oh, and, can u even believe that ppl off all shapes, forms, ways of living etc are being represented and acknowledged? What a hard world we live in my man

I am not against minority representation, and my reply wasn't necessarily at you, but at the people who want viera to be extremely short, petite males that makes absolutely no sense in any way. Believe it or not, I am actually not against there being minorities in a game, if that is what you are taking from my comment. I am against shoehorning in real world politics, or making a race something it's not. If someone wants to play a smaller petite male they can play a male miqo'te, or even make the male hyur midlander look quite feminine. Both are very customizable and can match many different tastes.

[Theodric]

I suspect some posters simply have an allergy to masculinity based on the wording of their posts.

Stop going on about 'empathy', for that matter. I really do not care about anybody's real world baggage in relation to male viera. It has zero relevance and it's just a cheap attempt to try and shame people into silence. As I stated earlier, I believe some posters are far too overly invested in their push for feminine and androgynous customisation options and that it would be healthy for them to consider taking a step back.

[Gwenorai]

Honestly, given everyone's gripe and what not. The concept art that most people were hyped for is the way to go. That is the safest bet for square in my opinion. I think folks forget that a minority is just that, a minority. Square is a business - pandering to the minority doesn't always work and sometimes just isn't where the money is. While it's nice to get that good old 'validation' - looking for it in a game is not the way to go. Believe me, I've been there - I've told the story multiple of times in this thread where Fran was the first 'black female' character in a game I had come across as a child, and that was neat. But after that, it just goes downhill.

Before someone starts screaming at me for being against minorities. I'm going to say this and roll my eyes so far in my head because I know someone is going to throw a disgusting tantrum. I am a minority, I'm a woman of colour who just happens to be pansexual. Big whoop. The fact I have a feeling I have to even mention this to stop someone from throwing the 'You don't understand our woes' argument, makes me so bloody tired.

Someone pass me a bottle of wine to wash down this thread, god dang. Minority arguments suck, people should stop using them.

[Theodric]

Someone pass me a bottle of wine to wash down this thread, god dang. Minority arguments suck, people should stop using them.

I have a bottle of red to share!

Fully agreed, though. I dislike 'minority' arguments as well. I'm technically one myself by virtue of being a bisexual guy in a relationship with another man. I'm not going to use that as a shield or blade to try and get what I want, though. Hence why I haven't mentioned it so far. Though I feel compelled to state it now to counter any potential accusations.

[SturmChurro]

I have a bottle of red to share!

Fully agreed, though. I dislike 'minority' arguments as well. I'm technically one myself by virtue of being a bisexual guy in a relationship with another man. I'm not going to use that as a shield or blade to try and get what I want, though. Hence why I haven't mentioned it so far. Though I feel compelled to state it now to counter any potential accusations.

You shouldn't even have to say that you are minority to be able to make an opinion. Everyone's opinion is just as valid as someone else's. Whether you are a minority or not. They might be wrong, but it's still a valid opinion. I really hate the "you don't understand our plight" thing as well. Like God, we are talking about a game here.

I won't even state if I am a minority or not because I do not think it is relevant. Take my opinion at face value, or don't.

[Lauront]

Although people are free to play themselves if they so wish, I also don't see a responsibility on the devs to make that possible. I'd imagine it's the farthest thing from their mind, when their goal is to create a fantasy world and not Second Life.

As for the Viis, I think it made sense given the overall style of the races they went for with the Rak'Tika Greatwood, but at the same time, I'm not particularly invested in how they look. I'm sure when we see more of the Viera we'll see more distinctiveness between the two subraces.

I won't even state if I am a minority or not because I do not think it is relevant. Take my opinion at face value, or don't.

Yup - it's pretty much a logical fallacy, anyway, trying to dismiss arguments solely on the basis of who is putting them forward.

[Gwenorai]

Snip

I can only upvote you once and this really upsets me. Preach this. Most of the time even when someone is 'championing' the cause, there's always going to be more than a few people in that minority who aren't even in agreement. So it's just? S t a p h.

Snip

Ah, you're a saint Theodric.

---

What you are in real shouldn't honestly factor into a fantasy races design unless you are originally the designer of said race and even then you shouldn't do it. Self-insert races and characters in fiction are usually really bad and not well done.

To be more clear, it's more than fine to create yourself in a fantasy game but you shouldn't always expect it to be near perfect. You need to adjust, get what you can take. But also have respect for what the designer have already put in place - which makes sense for them to be there. Boundaries are set, most MMOs have them in regards to races and they tend to follow the strictness of the lore that is put in place with a little leeway.

When you start to twist that and push against the boundary then, in reality, you're not wanting that 'race' anymore, you're wanting something else. Example; a hyur with elf ears, a lalafell that is 5ft tall. A Roe that is under 5'5 or doesn't have the muscles on them. Or an Elezen with the muscle development of a Roe/Hrothgar.

If you want the above then you're petty off going outside of the game and writing stories or roleplaying elsewhere without the restriction that your 'toon' has. Or swallow the pill that your character isn't going to be a perfect representation of what you desire.

Add on; as someone can say this is an argument against male Viera. Not at all. The lore of the Viera has it where they can leave if it's to protect the wood. This is the leeway mentioned.

[zeylos]

I am not against minority representation, and my reply wasn't necessarily at you, but at the people who want viera to be extremely short, petite males that makes absolutely no sense in any way. Believe it or not, I am actually not against there being minorities in a game, if that is what you are taking from my comment. I am against shoehorning in real world politics, or making a race something it's not. If someone wants to play a smaller petite male they can play a male miqo'te, or even make the male hyur midlander look quite feminine. Both are very customizable and can match many different tastes.

Then, I agree with your comment and apologize for my interpretation. Like I said, I would really like femenine men in the game, but not as male viera. The viera race overall is rather masculine and the men should not be femeine considering their lore and the thing theyre based on, I would like male viera to be masculine yet elegant and graceful. As for the minority issue, I dotn really want femenine men as male viera, but some comments do hurt me (21 years old gay guy, who is rather masculine yet my brother is a straight femenine men and I've seen him suffer so much for that, that I get defensive whenever someone says anything related to that that isnt possitive, its my protection instinct and I apologize for it)