New Revelations: Time Shenanigans

[Alleo]

I am also not a fan of this time travel. (Even if I am happy that the exarch is still alive)

Even at the beginning I found the explanation about time to be much to convinient. Of course when we arrive suddenly time runs the same..It could have been much simply if they just said that the first was the same with time as the source until the Light flood and then it started to be faster there..This would have been a great way to say: Dont worry about the source because even if you are here for years nothing much will change in the original world..of course the stuff that happened with Garlemald may have made less sense but since we were able to do so much stuff in all the expansion with the time bubble still being there..well it would not be surprising that maybe in a few days on the source we got this change. So not a fan of that information.

The biggest one was the one with the exarch. I dont like time travels and I am quite sure that I dont like that the exarch has such a huge amount of power. Being away from the tower, tortured, shot and otherwise hurt and yet seemingy still able to bend time and space to send us warriors for help. (But I admit the scene was awesome) And somehow when all was said and done he still exist because somehow the future we stopped from happening still exists somewhere?

But doesnt that mean that all the Ascians in that future also exist? That we are death in that part of the dimension? Couldnt these Ascians still not just wake up their Zodiark and then destroy reality with it? How bad is it for those that hoped that their sacrifice would change the world only for their dimension to forever exist in misery? What about the souls of these people? Ugh my head..

[EdwinLi]

---- Ugh my head..

Sounds more like you just don't like this part of the story because you don't know which possible outcome this event is.

For me It is fine since it is not so called convenient but relates to preventing a future event we know will be completely out of our hands.

As for which possible timeline splitting there are a certain ones I can think up being...

1) Branching timeline - the two timelines are not far split off from each other that they cannot link to each other again thus this new timeline has become a separate existance to a point both timelines have no influence over each other anymore. Fate/Grand Order follows this theory with Season 2 storyline involving the Tree of the Nasuverse having each Branch of the Tree representing the point where the timeline remains the same and where the timelines separate such as Fate/Stay Night Universe, Apocrypha timeline, and Kalied Universe, and etc. being represented by a Branch of the Tree but all are part of the Tree since the Trunk is the Origin timeline where all branch of the different timeline began with the same Origins.

2) Intended Block Placement Timeline - there is no splitting of timeline but all events are part of one timeline that has been cut into differennt parts with Exarch timeline happening first then when he went back in time a new Block is placed where his old timeline Ended thus it is a consistent straight path. The Flash TV series follow this theory so everything that happened has always been in a single timeline despite numbers of the time being different.

3) Replacement TImeline - The New timeline replace the Old timeline thus all events of the old timeline no longer exists but only the memories of that time by those who took part in that timeline being the Exarch. Exarch only remains because he had such a great influence in the New timeline that it cannot remove him. Some series follow this timeline theory as it allows the characters to stay and keep memories of their old timeline but they can never return to that old timeline because it no longer eixts.

4) the Path has changed but the End Result remains the Same Timeline - The End result is still considered going to happen but by a different means thus the Calamity has not been prevented but a new threat has replaced Black Rose as the cause of the 8th Umbral Calamity which we can guess what, or should I say who, will still cause the 8th Umbral Calamity due to what we see at the end of the After credit scene. Though it may be far greater and outside of what Ascian wanted due to the nature of this person's insanity.

[Alleo]

Sounds more like you just don't like this part of the story because you don't know which possible outcome this event is.

For me It is fine since it is not so called convenient but relates to preventing a future event we know will be completely out of our hands.

No I dont dislike it because I dont know the possible outcome, even if it was quite clear I am just not a fan of time travel. Even if it was one clear outcome I would probably not be a fan of it but at least one could try to understand the implications.

I'm going with this for now too.

Also, if future was the 8th Rejoining, shouldn't that mean that the Ascians were able to resurrect Zodiark? So what was he doing during all those centuries assuming he was resurrected? Or maybe he wasn't strong enough to do anything?

I am getting the feeling that messing with time like this will have some dire consequences, but I guess we'll find out in patches to come.

The 8th rejoining does not mean that Zodiark is back, there are still quite some shards left to rejoin before that happens.

[Lasana]

But doesnt that mean that all the Ascians in that future also exist? That we are death in that part of the dimension? Couldnt these Ascians still not just wake up their Zodiark and then destroy reality with it? How bad is it for those that hoped that their sacrifice would change the world only for their dimension to forever exist in misery? What about the souls of these people? Ugh my head..

I've been musing about this too, and the more I think about it, the more the Ascians themselves would probably regret having taken it this far.

Someone feel free to correct me if I've missed something, but:

Emet-Selch "wins" in this timeline by killing the WoL and the Scions, destroying the Eorzean Alliance, and causing the Calamity, but from what the Exarch and Urianger tell us, Black Rose was so overpowered by the Rejoining of the First that it eventually began to kill the planet's ability to sustain life. The Calamities of the past caused many deaths and immense destruction too, but they at least left the opportunity for life and civilization to flourish on the Source, even if the timetable for that was eons. Which makes sense, since Emet tells us the ultimate plan is to sacrifice the lives on the Source to Zodiark after the final Rejoining, and revive the fallen Amaurotines.

But Flood of Light-boosted Black Rose doesn't seem to leave to any room for that in the long term. Reading Biggs the Third's last message to G'raha after the Twinning makes me think so, anyway:

Biggs the Third
But you are our best chance of success. Our only hope. Your gift will allow you to become one with the tower and survive the journey through time and space. Were our technology as advanced as that of the Allagans, perhaps we could've gone with you.

[...]

Just promise me you'll spare a thought for those you leave behind. And we'll be thinking of you, too, for as long as this world lasts, though I fear it will not be for much longer.

He might have been talking about their timeline vanishing if the Exarch succeeded and history changed, but that line could have a much bleaker meaning: that the Source was looking at total extinction. If it had been 200 years since the Calamity and things were so bad that time travel was more viable than undoing the effects of Black Rose, maybe the planet itself was out of time.

So I don't know, it seems to me like in the "bad future" timeline, Emet and Elidibus might have screwed themselves out of their ultimate goal ten times worse than Igeyorhm ever did. If a Calamity messes up the Source too much, you don't have enough lives left on it to sacrifice to Zodiark, and this is with, what, 5-6 Rejoinings left to go? (I wonder if the Ascians of the Bad Future didn't bother to stop the Ironworks and G'raha because they needed that reset button just as badly, too.)

Oof. My head hurts too.

[Iscah]

He might have been talking about their timeline vanishing if the Exarch succeeded and history changed, but that line could have a much bleaker meaning: that the Source was looking at total extinction. If it had been 200 years since the Calamity and things were so bad that time travel was more viable than undoing the effects of Black Rose, maybe the planet itself was out of time.

Good point. Seeing as the entire plan relied on pinning their hopes to the intent of undoing their entire timeline, "fearing" that it won't last much longer seems counterintuitive.

Then again, it's probably reasonable to fear what's actually going to happen when you're about to see the world unravel in a time paradox...


Thinking over whether we should expect the Exarch to vanish if/when his timeline is erased... if anything including information can be allowed to remain beyond the undoing of its source timeline, then why not a person? It might be as simple as whether you're actually in the doomed world when the criteria for its prevention are reached.

But again, this is why non-stable time travel is horribly messy. (Though I'm willing to overlook some time paradoxes if it means the Exarch survives.)


I'm staring to replay the Alexander questline as well. (There were several people working on it while I was there!) I have to wonder if there's more to it than we've seen - it was always an oddity in the "sealed away forever" mechanism that Mide and Dayan eventually got out.