[MAJOR SPOILERS] On Souls and the Lifestream

[Yshnal]

My guess is that the player character can't be counted like a normal individual, and thus our soul(s) are unique. I have the theory that it was our original Amaurotine self the one which summoned Hydaelyn (with a different method probably involving linking her to us, with no tempering like Zodiark did with the Ascians after being summoned) to counter Zodiark. We most probably abandoned the Convocation because we weren't okay with summoning Zodiark, and after the other 13 members kept sacrificing half the population to make him stronger, it makes sense that we tried to do something about it.

In other words, I think that being directly connected to Hydaelyn is what allows us to get out of the lifestream and reincarnate forever with our soul "intact", as long as she exists (which also happens with the 10 Ascians that were split, but in this case due to Zodiark's influence). As for the rest of the people, I guess that once they get to the lifestream they get actually "recycled" and used to create a new one.

However, my other theory revolves around the fact that the goal of the Ascians was to sacrifice the new life to bring their people back *from* Zodiark (in other words, to swap them). As I understand it, that means that most of the souls are actually independent, and only the few that got split during the Sundering (original ancients, AKA current Echo users) can come back from the lifestream. Perhaps due to their unique original god-like capabilities.

[Tharne]

My guess is that the player character can't be counted like a normal individual, and thus our soul(s) are unique. I have the theory that it was our original Amaurotine self the one which summoned Hydaelyn (with a different method probably involving linking her to us, with no tempering like Zodiark did with the Ascians after being summoned) to counter Zodiark. We most probably abandoned the Convocation because we weren't okay with summoning Zodiark, and after the other 13 members kept sacrificing half the population to make him stronger, it makes sense that we tried to do something about it.

They didn't sacrifice half the population to make him stronger. The second sacrifice was to revive the Planet's life, yes the aether goes to Zodiark but it goes back to the land after that, he gained nothing in terms of power.
And might I also add that those sacrifices were volunteers, they didn't just kill people.

[Gula]

They didn't sacrifice half the population to make him stronger. The second sacrifice was to revive the Planet's life, yes the aether goes to Zodiark but it goes back to the land after that, he gained nothing in terms of power.
And might I also add that those sacrifices were volunteers, they didn't just kill people.

Which also adds on to Emet's point when asking us if half our own people would sacrifice themselves as the Ascians did. It really hits hard because everyone knows the answer is no.

[Yshnal]

They didn't sacrifice half the population to make him stronger. The second sacrifice was to revive the Planet's life, yes the aether goes to Zodiark but it goes back to the land after that, he gained nothing in terms of power.
And might I also add that those sacrifices were volunteers, they didn't just kill people.

I might be wrong, but I think that I remember Emet mentioning that it was to make him stronger. In order to restore the star, yes, but Zodiark himself was the focus of the sacrifices.

About the volunteers, yeah, the Amaurotines weren't forced. But the plan was to force those that came after in order to restore them, and I doubt that that's something that they decided on the run. It had to be part of the whole plan from the start (and I'm sure that the volunteers counted on that). So, with more volunteers, more innocents would have been needed to be killed later. And the number kept getting higher each time that they feed Zodiark. On top of that it wasn't probably going to require a 1:1 ratio to restore them, which would mean that the required numbers were increasing exponentially.

[Milea]

Not all souls are amouratine. Infact, it is very rare to find one.
I suspect people with echo are reincarnated pieces of an amoiratine.

That means:
Us
Minfillia
Arenvald
Krile
Unukalahai

We know that none of the scions were regarded by Emet selch, just us.

He could care less about Alphy, Yshtoka, Urianger.
He says we stand above our fellows (the scions) but still fall short.

And the whole plan was to sacrifice the new mortal lives like Yshtola to power Zodiark.

So, it seems most people are new souls and the sundered are rare.

[Vulcwen]

Not all souls are amouratine. Infact, it is very rare to find one.
I suspect people with echo are reincarnated pieces of an amoiratine.

Yes, I suspect the same thing. I also just had a small realization about the echo that supports this:
The real life meaning of echo is a reflection of sound.

[Alleo]

I also wonder..were the Amaurotines the only ones immortal? Were the rest of the people just mortals? Because I get the feeling that the games give us two sides to this. One of course that the calamity was getting so strongh because people all over the world got fearful and created these beasts. And Amaurot was only the last bastion and seat of the wise ones. On the other hand why would the Amaurotines see only themselves as stewards or protectors of the planet? If everyone was an ancient one why would the Ascians sacrifice those to get back their lost ones? Or is this just the case of: All the Ascians are from Amaurot and thus they only truly see the people from that one city as those that have the rights to life again because they probably got the most sacrifices out them? But isnt that bad since the only reason why they were left behind was, because they did not act until the calamites were on their door?

I am really confused by this..are there Vieras, Hyurs, Hrothgars, and more under these robes and masks or were there one complete race? Why would they then not comment on our race when we are there, just on our height?

They didn't sacrifice half the population to make him stronger. The second sacrifice was to revive the Planet's life, yes the aether goes to Zodiark but it goes back to the land after that, he gained nothing in terms of power.
And might I also add that those sacrifices were volunteers, they didn't just kill people.

The power was still given to Zodiark first to revive the life, which means that he should have the souls? Otherwise how would he be able to get them back if they just became part of the planet?

They might be volunteers, but we dont know 100% the arguments that they made to get them. Maybe they promised to bring them back?

[MrThinker]

I also wonder..were the Amaurotines the only ones immortal? Were the rest of the people just mortals? Because I get the feeling that the games give us two sides to this. One of course that the calamity was getting so strongh because people all over the world got fearful and created these beasts. And Amaurot was only the last bastion and seat of the wise ones. On the other hand why would the Amaurotines see only themselves as stewards or protectors of the planet? If everyone was an ancient one why would the Ascians sacrifice those to get back their lost ones? Or is this just the case of: All the Ascians are from Amaurot and thus they only truly see the people from that one city as those that have the rights to life again because they probably got the most sacrifices out them? But isnt that bad since the only reason why they were left behind was, because they did not act until the calamites were on their door?

I am really confused by this..are there Vieras, Hyurs, Hrothgars, and more under these robes and masks or were there one complete race? Why would they then not comment on our race when we are there, just on our height?



The power was still given to Zodiark first to revive the life, which means that he should have the souls? Otherwise how would he be able to get them back if they just became part of the planet?

They might be volunteers, but we dont know 100% the arguments that they made to get them. Maybe they promised to bring them back?

The suggestion is that the only sentient race was that of the Ancients. The city of Amaurot itself was simply the capitol of the worldwide civillization they shared, though other cities did exist, across the ocean for example, and that the people there too shared the longevity and creation powers of the Amaurotines. Amaurot being the capitol also answers why they thought the city being the place where the stars most important management facilities existed. Simply because it was the seat of government. The Convocation of Fourteen was already in the process of thinking up a solution to the Final Days (going ahead with the Zodiark plan) when the details of what happened in that unknown city reached them. As for whether or not the 'races' as we know them existed... it seems suggested that the answer is no.

Also in regards to the 'bring all the sacrificed peoples back' bit. It seems as though they came to that idea only AFTER the first 2 acts of Zodiark occurred, because it was only then that the dissidents were 'nope enough is enough' and summoned Hydaelyn. So the Ancients DID do the sacrifices out of the wellbeing of their fellows. Or at least that is how I read it.

[Alleo]

The suggestion is that the only sentient race was that of the Ancients. The city of Amaurot itself was simply the capitol of the worldwide civillization they shared, though other cities did exist, across the ocean for example, and that the people there too shared the longevity and creation powers of the Amaurotines. Amaurot being the capitol also answers why they thought the city being the place where the stars most important management facilities existed. Simply because it was the seat of government. The Convocation of Fourteen was already in the process of thinking up a solution to the Final Days (going ahead with the Zodiark plan) when the details of what happened in that unknown city reached them. As for whether or not the 'races' as we know them existed... it seems suggested that the answer is no.

Also in regards to the 'bring all the sacrificed peoples back' bit. It seems as though they came to that idea only AFTER the first 2 acts of Zodiark occurred, because it was only then that the dissidents were 'nope enough is enough' and summoned Hydaelyn. So the Ancients DID do the sacrifices out of the wellbeing of their fellows. Or at least that is how I read it.

Well if all on that planet were ancient immortal beings then Emet really is a hypocrite..because we know that they kinda waited with the summoning of Zodiark (or talked about the idea of it) until the calamities were on their doorsteps..at the very same time many people already suffered under it and probably increased it too with their fears. We know this because some NPCs talk about this and one quest has a discussion between two NPCs, that wonder if those should be helped or not without coming to a conclusion and just being happy to have that discussion. So who knows how many Amaurotines were even left when Zodiark was called. If that is true then suddenly half of the remaining people does not sound like much at all. And its imo also way easier to find people willing to sacrifice themselves if they are the last city still somewhat alive than getting half of the whole race on the whole planet to sacrifice themselves.

If the races not existed before the split then I wonder why they did not talk about our race at all? Was it simply because they were not "programmed" to do so? Because they seemingly still saw us as children of their race. And if the races only happened after the split, how big is the chance that the exact same spoken races (just with different names) exist on the shards too?

[Neophyte]

Anyway. Earlier on in Il Mheg, Alphinaud comments that the pixies' childlike temperaments is owed to them (supposedly) being the reincarnated souls of children. Just the same, the Fuath are supposedly reincarnated souls of those who were drowned. These, and the Warrior of Light being an apparently reincarnated Ascian, strongly suggest if not confirm that it's possible for souls to persist in the Lifestream. Otherwise they're simply errant souls, drifting in the aether until they're able to reincarnate - never entering the Lifestream.

I don't take those 'fairy tales' seriously tbh. I mean... if souls persist in the lifestream, there shouldn't be 'child souls', bcs... well... every soul was a child once (or twice or...) and every soul reborn would also always start as a child. So wth is a 'child soul'?

I mean:
Adult person dies
-> adult soul gets into lifestream, ready to be reborn (but not as fairy, since no child)
-> soul gets reborn in a new born child (the former adult soul is a child soul now) and dies
-> child soul gets reborn as fairy
-> soul trapped forever in a childlike state

If fairies are immortal and child souls get likely turned into fairies and fairies always and forever stay childish (and so their soul) AND the number of souls is constant.. we should run low on souls at some point, lol.