The DPS is not the Healer

[Nedkel]

As a Warrior main, you wot m8? Our sustain was nerfed in Stormblood, true, but in ShB they brought it back up with Nascent Flash. If you refer to Inner Beast actually losing it's healing, why were you using IB in the first place? Steel Cyclone sustain being gone is pretty bad but Chaotic Cyclone + Inner Release + Nascent Flash means not only you get to live but a buddy of your choosing gets to live as well. We don't even need to toggle stance for Equilibrium anymore. I'm sorry but I just don't see how Warrior lost anything. The best tank only got better.

Nascent flash has only 6 seconds duration. :x

It's easier and time effective, but is not the intended design.

Look at the first 71 dungeon. Pull wall to wall with 71 gear....not intended. Just because YOU out gear it or get bored and want to speed run doesn't mean your expectations should interfere with someones playstyle when they are playing as intended. As intended, intended by the design not by play base.

Actually, devs designs dungeons in the way that it allows pulling 2-3 groups of mobs in newest dungeons, which is a pure definition of wall-to-wall, since it is pulling as much as a dungeon design allows.
It is intended to be pulled that way because devs are taking into account different ilvls of the players and are predicting the curve of power for players. They wont do dungeons where you could only pull 1 group in entire dungeon because it would be a nightmare for those who are going to run it with higher ilvl.
It is supposed to be harder for current ilvls and after half year into expansion being easier when ilvls go up so you will see people pulling everything in sight.

[Kaethra]

As others said, everyone gets a say in how the dungeon should be run. This idea that Healers and Tanks are doing DPS a favor by playing a Healer or Tank is way outdated way of thinking. Each person contributes their quarter of effort to the group and is equal to every other member of the group.

And as I've said in other threads in the past, majority rules. If the group (the other three) wants to do large pulls and one person, tank, healer, or DPS doesn't want to, they should consider bowing out for someone who will or accept the fact there's going to be large pulls. If one person wants to do big pulls and the other three do not, they can choose to bow out too or simply accept the smaller pulls. Gear is roughly irrelevant currently. All playstyles are support by minimum ilvl scaling and requirements.

It comes down to ability and preference at this point, and majority vote.

[ksuyen]

It basically comes down to party decision, if any of the following is not true, then pulling a small group is wiser.

Q: "Can we do large pull?"
Tank: "Am I gear enough that my HP won't keep dropping like crazy?"
DPS: "Am I doing enough DPS that the mobs will die fast?"
Healer: "Can I keep up with the tank HP before my mana dies?"

[Fawkes]

It basically comes down to party decision, if any of the following is not true, then pulling a small group is wiser.

Q: "Can we do large pull?"
Tank: "Am I gear enough that my HP won't keep dropping like crazy?"
DPS: "Am I doing enough DPS that the mobs will die fast?"
Healer: "Can I keep up with the tank HP before my mana dies?"

It's more like:

Tank: Am I geared enough?
Healer: Can I keep up with the tank?
Tank and Healer: Are the DPS terrible?


There are no DPS players that will say "Hey wait a minute, don't pull big, I'm bad!" Spamming AoE on a small pack or a big pack is the exact same gameplay, nothing changes for them. It is a decision for the healer and tank to make, not the DPS.

[SturmChurro]

It's more like:

Tank: Am I geared enough?
Healer: Can I keep up with the tank?
Tank and Healer: Are the DPS terrible?


There are no DPS players that will say "Hey wait a minute, don't pull big, I'm bad!" Spamming AoE on a small pack or a big pack is the exact same gameplay, nothing changes for them. It is a decision for the healer and tank to make, not the DPS.

You got it so right.

[Eli85]

It's more like:

Tank: Am I geared enough?
Healer: Can I keep up with the tank?
Tank and Healer: Are the DPS terrible?


There are no DPS players that will say "Hey wait a minute, don't pull big, I'm bad!" Spamming AoE on a small pack or a big pack is the exact same gameplay, nothing changes for them. It is a decision for the healer and tank to make, not the DPS.

Entitled tank and healer mentality, right here. It's a decision for the group, not the tank and / or healer. Tanks and healers are not special snowflakes, and they do not get more privileges than DPS players.

[Alucard135]

I see people are getting offended by something that has zero effect on their gameplay again. And by that "something" I mean a DPS answering instead of a healer.

[Dynia]

I have 0 problem to keep tank alive with big pulls to wall in this expansion and to be honest I never had any problem in any dungeon, even new dungs are too easy. (there is even time to spam holy all day)
They should make hard mode for dungs with harder mobs and better rewards that would be fun

im WHM main since HW

[Videra]

Entitled tank and healer mentality, right here. It's a decision for the group, not the tank and / or healer. Tanks and healers are not special snowflakes, and they do not get more privileges than DPS players.

I don't see how it's entitled at all. You'll be spamming AOE on a small pack of three or four, and things will only go faster on a larger pull. DPS literally have no reason to be considered in this decision.

[ElroyDrundan]

I had a dps chime in to the tank to pull bigger. This was from a BLM, i responded I think that is something that needs healer approval but with a smile as I was just having fun.

The questions for big pulls firstly resides with the healer/tank combo.

Is the tank reasonably geared and decent at cooldown usage?
Is the healer decent and are their cooldowns available?
Are the dps any good?

If the tank and or healer can't handle large pulls the dps doesn't matter, if the dps are crap the pull can still go badly it will just be after the cooldowns are all used, mana is gone etc..

I have been running my healer with a friend (tank) We usually decided to pull gently (2 groups) and see how dps is doing, if they are good then we increase things.

I'm new to SCH (previous WHM) but I did use to struggle with the first pull of a dungeon sometimes if it was a huge pull with the stupid no Atherflow out of combat..

The only thing I truly hate is the tank that is always running after the fight so I'm always behind, where they are at 1/3 health by the time I get to them and then it can be dicey trying to get them stable. (also typically means much less dps from me).