New Revelations: The Elements

[Seraphor]

Is this correct...?

Surely Astral is energetic and Umbral is passive?

[Elecrom]

Is this correct...?

Surely Astral is energetic and Umbral is passive?

That is the crux here.
Astral (as the Source understands it) is the polarity of creation. But too much creation results in things overlaying atop of each other and like with colors this is known as 'Darkness' in the First
Umbral is the polarity of decay. But too much decay results in an empty 'white' space and such is known as 'Light' in the First.
Thancred then theorizes that this is a more ancient understanding, and since the Ascians think this way too it might be the 'correct' one (in paranthesis, because I understand it more like 'Too much of one thing loops into it's opposite' making both sets of terms correct depending on perspective.)

What I don't really get is, if this is true what exactly governs if Darkness loops into Light or Light into Darkness? Why had the 13th a Calamity of Darkness and the First a Calamity of Light, when Light and Darkness are just 2 Points on a sliding scale?

[Seraphor]

I don't see the point of flipping astral and umbral on their heads.
They literally mean light and dark, and we already call the 13th, overcome with darkness, the void.

I thought that conversation was about explaining hiw the people of the First revere the passivity of darkness over the activity of light.

It would make more sense that astral, light, activity, creation, is what results in an all encompassing brightness that 'bleaches' creation.

[Anonymoose]

That's just it, though; Emet-Selch spends the rest of Shadowbringers affirming that the original word attached to the primordial force of stasis was Light, so the force acting on the elements to create an umbral charge was Light, not Darkness, all along. Eorzeans "misunderstood" the cause (Light/Darkness) of the effect (astral/umbral). The First just never paid any attention to the polarities as distinct things, but rather Element + Primordial Force.

[Seraphor]

So Light is still Light, but the source have arbitrarily named it Umbral (shadow)...
I don't get why this is a thing, it doesn't affect anything other than the semantics of the source.

[MerleSirlos]

What if we apply something similar to how primary colors work but to the elements?
With light sources, you have an additive system where red, green and blue are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get white, the Light
For printing (as we see light reflection), you have a subtractive system, where cyan, magenta and yellow are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get black, the Darkness.

The Shards are reflections of the Source after all....

[Seraphor]

What if we apply something similar to how primary colors work but to the elements?
With light sources, you have an additive system where red, green and blue are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get white, the Light
For printing (as we see light reflection), you have a subtractive system, where cyan, magenta and yellow are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get black, the Darkness.

The Shards are reflections of the Source after all....

Ok, I can see why they've done that from a thematic viewpoint then.
The first is exactly how I always imagined it, and the 'reflections' being 'opposite land' seems to be the direction they're taking, if only in naming conventions at least.

[QT_Melon]

What if we apply something similar to how primary colors work but to the elements?
With light sources, you have an additive system where red, green and blue are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get white, the Light
For printing (as we see light reflection), you have a subtractive system, where cyan, magenta and yellow are the primary colors. By adding them all together you get black, the Darkness.

The Shards are reflections of the Source after all....

I thought it was mentioned like that as well during the explanation (my color theory senses went off) when it happened.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

So Light is still Light, but the source have arbitrarily named it Umbral (shadow)...
I don't get why this is a thing, it doesn't affect anything other than the semantics of the source.

The mages on the source got it wrong is all. Think of how science and engineering have positive and negative electric charges flipped (because of an arbitrary decision about which was which before we knew about electrons) , or "well sorted" and "poorly graded" being synonyms in regards to a rock/sediment's grain size distribution (the former used by geologists and the latter by geological engineers).

[QT_Melon]

Wondering how this applies to the two oldest primals.

Zodiark would be a being of Active energy which is dark.
Hydaelyn is a being of passive and stasis energy which is light.

Would that be correct?