Any chance on classic XI-style "pull camps?"

[Kopuno]

Just because it is viable doesn't mean everyone is going to play that way. Not a very strong argument. I agree with the guy that says give us both.

By Viable you mean, don't include ARCs or THMs in your group? Thats the only way to make the "not" viable. You don't have a choice as a melee, you can run to the mob and before you get there its dead. Repeat. Besides Im for both parties however I think Mobs need a huge bonus to HP to make everything besides THMs and ARCs useful.

[LillithaFenimore]

And sadly people like you may spawn offspring at some time ; ;

And thankfully people like you won't and shouldn't. Back to the topic at hand.

Op, like many have stated, grinding is grinding no matter how you split it. Whether it be camping style ala FFXI and other MMO's or roaming. It's still boring all all hell.

I'm hoping that leveling will be made to where it doesn't feel like such a chore. Kinda like they did through the TES series or DAO series. You progress while doing quests...that are relavent to main scenario and not just what is busy work for the sake of adding in quests. Leveling should definately be fun, regardless if you are camping with a group or going at is solo. However, IDK if SE would ever go in that direction, I hope they do eventually, but for some reason I just can't the community as a whole wanting leveling to be as fluid as it is in those games.

W/e they do with leveling or w/e they take leveling...I hope they do something to make it much more enjoyable than camping/roaming.

The only positive I can say about camping ala FFXI, at least I had time to type while casting a heal spell and resting...here...it's like "keel! okay move over here! Keel!!!!" Not much room for trying to socialize when you are constantly having to hit spell buttons and move buttons :P

[Elexia]

I honestly hope they don't make quest based progression, that gets boring as hell because they're always generic kill quests in disguise of a story. (This is especially true in TES and MMOs lately.) Doing quests and all is fine, but my character shouldn't reach cap by doing so, what would the point of ever fighting enemies beyond the kill quest...err quest enemies be? You may as well remove all mobs from the game at that point.

[Rowyne]

Op, like many have stated, grinding is grinding no matter how you split it. Whether it be camping style ala FFXI and other MMO's or roaming. It's still boring all all hell.

I'm hoping that leveling will be made to where it doesn't feel like such a chore. Kinda like they did through the TES series or DAO series. You progress while doing quests...that are relavent to main scenario and not just what is busy work for the sake of adding in quests. Leveling should definately be fun, regardless if you are camping with a group or going at is solo. However, IDK if SE would ever go in that direction, I hope they do eventually, but for some reason I just can't the community as a whole wanting leveling to be as fluid as it is in those games.

W/e they do with leveling or w/e they take leveling...I hope they do something to make it much more enjoyable than camping/roaming.

^ I agree with this, 100%.

I'm definitely not an advocate for bringing leves back to center stage. I think it was a good idea to make them secondary content. That's how they should have always been. For filling gaps in between levels, rep grinding, to make some gil, etc. Repeatable content should have never been the meat and potatoes of leveling.

That said. I was disappointed when they were repositioned and nothing was left to take their place but undisguised grinding.

Final Fantasy games are known for their amazing storytelling. And modern MMOs generally level people fluidly through story-driven content and quests. If 2.0 wants to be a true contender in the MMO market, I think they will need to rethink their leveling model.

People should have the option of leveling the way they like, whether it be through quests, instances, or open world content.

I personally prefer a mix of quest-based content and dungeons.

I haven't played an MMO since FFXI where you just sit in a camp for hours, pull, kill, rinse and repeat. And I have no desire to get back to that.

[Yves]

That said. I was disappointed when they were repositioned and nothing was left to take their place but undisguised grinding.

Final Fantasy games are known for their amazing storytelling.

Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not doing it to be a jerk, but FF games, all FF games are known for a handful of things and at the top of the list are

1. Gripping storyline
2. Amazing musical scores
3. ...tedious hours upon hours of grinding levels in the same areas over and over and over...

Go all the way back to the Hall of Giants in FF on NES for the proof of number 3. Look at the tower in FF3/6. Look at grinding away in VII to beat Emerald Weapon. Or even obtaining the god weapons in X. There has always been a grind to the FF story. The grind is actually one of the bases of the RPG genre. In 1992 the big thing was how many hours you could get out of a game. Sure, Battletoads and TMNT were fun for the whole three hours that they lasted but that was why it was a rental. People rented action games but bought RPGs because you could plan on sinking a few weeks or months into them.

If leveling via killing mobs wasn't the main driver behind an RPG's length then we would have even more people with all R50 jobs sitting around with nothing to do. Battle has to be a major time sink and it also has to engaging. Again, I don't see why there can't be both roaming and pull camps but my two cents says its just plain better to have some form of strategy and skill when building parties and killing mobs. I keep referencing XI merit parties because those were a very nice hybrid of both systems and would fit incredibly well with the XIV system.

Somebody even supported this in trying to make a counterpoint that you had to wait around for pullers before starting a party. That's really not true considering you could go out with a garbage puller at the expense of exp - you just had to wait for a puller who was good if you wanted great exp. Hell, even unconventional pullers could support good exp (I have Dia pulled on WHM far too many times just to keep a party rolling!)

And the last reason that I really support either pull camps or hybrid camps is because the community needs it. Not many people talk while fighting which really drains the social aspect of this game.

I'm not saying that the game needs to be centered on battle (we really do need more content like quests and side-story) but it is a huuuuuge chunk of any RPG. In fact, if you look at it, I would wager more than 70% of any RPG (MMO included) is spent in battle (excluding the time you sit around staring at your moghouse wall on LVL45 DRK or MNK seeking and crying.)

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a jerk by expanding on your quote in favor of the opposition - it just fit nicely with the point.

[Reaujien]

I'm not saying that the game needs to be centered on battle (we really do need more content like quests and side-story) but it is a huuuuuge chunk of any RPG. In fact, if you look at it, I would wager more than 70% of any RPG (MMO included) is spent in battle (excluding the time you sit around staring at your moghouse wall on LVL45 DRK or MNK seeking and crying.)

(I like your post, and I'd quote the entire thing but some people are scared to have to read more than a few sentences)

It's sad that building an MMO around an RPG is appearing to turn into a lost art. People would do well to realize that this game - as in any game in the FF series - is (and should be) an RPG first, and an MMO second. It's also further sad that it's become unnaturally taboo (at least in these soup-to-nuts forums) for players to make references to any past MMORPG games attempting to either convey his/her relative thoughts on things regarding additions/changes to FFXIV or simply asking generalized questions such as "this worked in this past game, why isn't it in this current game?"

Any game (or any piece of software/program really) can contain nearly limitless "content", functionality, gadgets, whistles n' bells, etc. etc., that it wants, but if at the end of the day the game doesn't even play/progress as the type/genre of game it's supposed to be then what's the point?

What's the point of having intentions of designing Halo to be an FPS if in the end you create a game where the player spends 90% of his/her play time from start to finish in CSs, or doing something other than, oh I don't know, lining up cross hairs at enemies and blowing their brains out?

How much sense does it make marketing GTA as an open-world/open-ended action game if when the player spends 90% of their play-time being forced to go from here, to there, to there, to here, etc. etc. (e.g., LINEAR gameplay), and only 10% of their play time being able to aimlessly wonder and do immature things that GTA has been known to allow players to do? (and then end up on national news)

And more pertinent to this game, what sense is there in calling FFXIV an MMORPG when the time and experiences spent from getting from "new player" to "end-level/end-game player" is:

• Quick?
• Lacking adventure?
• Void of any meaningful memories (e.g., "Oh man, I remember doing my first boss battle at lvl20 - my friends and I spent many deaths trying to down him!", "I remember making the trek across the entire world from [place A] to [place B] trying to get [insert progression-centered important item here]; I died a few times and there were some really intense moments!", "Man, those were good times!")?
• Completely deprived of roadblock challenges that test the RPG-players' skill, will, intelligence, and determination (e.g. Lvl-cap quests, Maat fight, etc. etc.)?
• Empty of any relic/heirloom-like items that act as symbols of accomplishments (e.g., AF, story-centered "hurdle" battle rewards, etc.)?

This is an RPG game first - there needs to be a sense of adventure, time spent building your character, and filled with various challenges (whatever they may be) that cannot be circumvented simply because you don't want to do them or there's no point in putting the 'RPG' in the MMORPG FFXIV claims to be (or become). For those of you who simply look at the time spent as "stuff", or "time sink", or "Where's my 'NOW' buttom?!", then you ought to seek out other games/genres that reward you even if you don't want to play them the way they should be designed.

[Rowyne]

Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not doing it to be a jerk, but FF games, all FF games are known for a handful of things and at the top of the list are

1. Gripping storyline
2. Amazing musical scores
3. ...tedious hours upon hours of grinding levels in the same areas over and over and over...

I don't think you're a jerk for your opinion at all, but I appreciate the politeness. Not enough of that going around nowadays.

You're definitely right that FF games have a long standing tradition of an uphill grind. But times, they are a changin'.

I'm not in favor at all of easy mode leveling. In fact, I'm pretty disappointed that FFXIV now has a ridiculously easy leveling curve (hopefully it will be adjusted in 2.0). And I'm not opposed to grindy elements in an MMO. In fact, there are some kinds of grinding I enjoy. Rep grinding, money grinding, farming, etc. But I just don't think that should be the de facto method of leveling for the majority of players.

I, too, think that leveling should take time. I miss that feeling of accomplishment you get as you progress. Leveling done through content not only makes leveling fun and disguises the grind that can easily burn out a player, but it forces them to pace themselves. It also removes the ease of powerleveling.

Obviously, there are old-school gamers here who prefer to just grind out the levels the old fashioned way. There's nothing wrong with that preference (even if I don't share it) and it's obvious the game devs need to leave that in as an option. But it is a niche preference and not something I think many western players look for (just look at the success of story-driven MMOs such as WoW and SW:TOR).

I don't wish to see anyone lose something they enjoy, but Yoshi-P did promise leveling options and getting away from being a grind-centric game.

Edit: Didn't mean to help derail the original topic, which is stationary camps vs roaming parties (not do you prefer grinding or content-based leveling). To which I again answer, I think stationary camps only help promote /afk leveling in a game that's rife with powerleveling.

[Biggs]

I would love to see them impliment this for all levels. Certainly I don't expect it to replace the current system but, in lue of the fact that they are redoing the zones anyway, this seems like it would be fairly easy to throw in. I miss the old school but still love the new school. WOuld like to see both.

[Xoo]

For me, I miss the thrill of getting that awesome party at any level range after you've been repeatedly subjected to the awfulness it can be. I don't care what anyone says, there was a degree of strategy in an XI grind party that doesn't seem to exist in XIV. When you have an efficient puller, a good tank who's quick on the voke, THF who could land SATA quickly each and every time (and used status bolts!), a BRD/NIN that could sleep one mob and pull the next in succession (pre-meripo), the list goes on..

What do we have in XIV? In my opinion, it's a spamfest that requires little more than Stoneskin, Curaga, Shock Spikes, and a whole slew of generic AoE weaponskills.

The jobs in this game need a helluva lot more depth to be interesting.

[Elexia]

What do we have in XIV? In my opinion, it's a spamfest that requires little more than Stoneskin, Curaga, Shock Spikes, and a whole slew of generic AoE weaponskills.

Welcome to 2010...2011...uh, 2012 MMORPGS, the way of the future where ADD gameplay is what we all want!