THM/BLM MP Crisis/Solutions.

[Vexerus]

Do that with 3 other ARC and I'll be impressed.

Inb4 "you didn't run with 4 archers and a THM to compare," inb4 "you took too long to kill", inb4 "someone somewhere is a noob" and Inb4 "that only happened once".

Which one is next?

[Toffy]

If you are doing more than 60k on moogle, either all the other DPS are trash and don't know how to use bind, or you are taking too long to kill them. I've hit more than 80k on moogle when the other DPS were completely garbage and it took us almost the full 30 minutes to kill because the king or whm spammed heals. I don't see why people boast "dude, i did 75k on moogle fight" or "dude, i did more than 20k on ifrit". Just shows how bad your group is imo.

Inb4 "you didn't run with 4 archers and a THM to compare," inb4 "you took too long to kill", inb4 "someone somewhere is a noob" and Inb4 "that only happened once".

Only 1 more

[Bahn]

The MP is fine the way it is. Just like when cure first costed more MP. People just have to adapt and learn how to manage MP to be more efficient.

Adapting to bad game design decisions does not make it "ok". They fixed Cure by making its absurdly high MP cost proportional with the amount you healed.

Or did you forget about when leveling our classes was based off of a chance percentage of hitting with your weapons/spells?

There's a huge debate going on right now about whether or not THM's MP management mechanic is balanced correctly. Seems to be split right down the middle. Probably a "lrn2play" issue, but whenever I have elitists telling me to "lrn2play" when a bad game design decision is made, it usually means "lrn2dealwithiteventhoughitsuckstodoso".

[Estellios]

I've been playing THM a bit more lately leveling it up a little solo and with a lowman PT with some friends. I think it's quite balanced in that environment which is when we'll be using THM. I can completely obliterate enemies but it comes at either the risk of me taking hate and dying, or running out my MP and being unable to do crap for a while, and if i get hate AND I'm out of MP there's nothing I can do until someone gets it off me.

Generally in high end events and large party battles we're going to be wanting to use BLM instead of THM, and having Convert IMO should allow you to run a lot longer before your MP is gone. In these situations the hate risk factor in parties is not as prominent as you typically have to give your tank a head start which, from my experience, is more than enough to cement hate an entire fight as long as you don't go overboard. With hate no longer an issue, you can push your MP more which will be alleviated by Convert.

I guess my point is, unfortunately the game currently is designed with Jobs in mind but we don't have them yet.

[Meatdawg]

Yeah.... 15k damage difference between THM and ARC. THMs Combos are so over powered and broken. And if you disagree, YOU OBVIOUSLY are playing the class wrong. I mean, ARC obviously now will have 50% of their MP just to use Bloodletter now by SE's logic.

Please, that picture doesn't prove anything. You had two THMs. High parse damage tends to show someone who does NO assisting, NO asset to the fight besides dealing damage. I'd rather have a non-assisting archer, which will make the fight go faster, than a parse whoring THM who thinks going above 50k is anything to post on these forums about. Do that with 3 other ARC and I'll be impressed.

I do like how you broke down the whole party strategy out of 1 single parse results... Assuming he is just standing there going oom and doing nothing else to contribute is laughable. Your fellow LS mates who have run parties with vex and me have even pointed out how well vex does at his class.

There is more then one way to play your class effectively.

[Hikozaemon]

One major problem is that why spells scale per lvl so does yer mp cost and the fact that you are limited too the amount of spells u can cast. You never get ahead in the MP dept giving you those few extra nukes and your mp regen is awful in comparison too tp gains of melee and guess what your nukes are resisted alot more than melee attacks derp. and they do not do comparable dmg to bosses compared to melee dmg. nukes do great dmg to mobs below or 3ish lvls above you but once that gap is passed you are resisted greatly even w/ superior gear.
I've soloed my last 7 lvls on thm and found the first few to be rather easy and arguably better than exp pts to gain. But as ive gained lvls it has become harder to solo mobs my same lvl or few lvls higher i get resisted alot more now my spells cost more and my mp regen is crap. I use feather foot and pars. everytime its available w/ thundara combo. But here yields another problem THM cant combo if its spells are resisted at all. This rule doesnt apply to melee so wtf? wheres the sense in that. i can whip out combos endlessly on LNC for considerably way more dmg during boss fights than thm and never have to worry about my TP gain etc and i even have a huge mp pool to curemyself if need be. Totally unbalanced between thm and everyother class. And wtf is w/ Sang Rite it works better on off classes and only finds use during Boss AOE attacks most often.

[StateAlchemist]

As it stands a well geared THM cannot match the overall damage a well geared ARC does in Moogle fight. (This assuming both are good players as well.) However! An ARC can not hope to match the amount of damage a THM can bring to the table in the process of dumping almost 4K MP on one target. (In the same time frame.) BLM will further widen this gap. Personally do I enjoy standing around in Moogle? No. But I think BRD + Convert will alleviate the issues i currently have.

So yeah, an ARC can deal 2x the damage a THM can in a moogle fight, but the burst is what we are there for. I have gotten to the point where I now only run out of MP on the third moogle. With some more gear tweaking I hope to change that to the 4th (maybe 5th but i am probably dreaming). This is mainly due to the fact that I increased my damage output by a lot, and therefore needed less spells before each one went down. With Convert and BRD Refresh, I doubt I will be doing much standing around as BLM.

[StateAlchemist]

Oh and well timed uses of Sanquine Rite + Featherfoot, and Crits on Parsimonied casts make a world of difference.

(Sometimes I run into an AoE on purpose with Sanquine Rite up, jsut so I can get a chunk of MP then Necrogenesis + Second Wind my HP back to full. Just make sure you tell your CNJs not to waste MP on healing you in that situation and it makes it fairly efficient way to stay in the fight.)

[Zoltan]

The OP is correct

Let me be the first to inform you that standing around waiting for mp to recover is NOT fun.

It isn't fun. They really missed by not having +Hmp (Healing MP) gear bonuses or some mechanism for THM to recover MP. Taking away Siphon MP and Tranquility and not replacing it with anything other than Parsimony and Sanguine Rite was ill advised.

Yes, we must deal with it as it is, but it's still not fun standing still waiting for MP to replenish.

[Zdenka]

They could cut MP costs in half but they would have to also cut damage done in half. THM has the highest DPS potential currently, which should be limited by MP and threat.

If you did the 50% MP/Damage cut to allow THM to cast more spells, this means there is more error of getting a "terrible BLM". As you must be doing more actions to receive the same results. This means I am currently in favor of how its set up now, as its more fun to play with "big risk big reward" scenario where you may have to sit around a bit, instead of smashing the "1" key over and over again.


Also Meele have huge CD"s on their combos, so they aren't -just- limited by TP so comparing TP and MP directly is a pretty fail comparison since there are more aspects involved than just that.