Provoke now grants additional aggro.

[Xan_Kriegor]

Their intentions were to simplify the enmity management to a level where it really does not matter anymore. MT can just sit at tank stance without any damage penalty and they will be fine. They have also reduced CD on voke and gave additional enmity to it, just to make things even more easier. What I am really curious about is: how much is that additional enmity provided by voke ? Is that enough to make viable boss pulling with Provoke instead of Shield Lob/ Unmend / Tomahawk so you can pull with an oGCD making your first real GCD a little bit earlier in the fight?

[Niurok]

They need to fix this. God damn war provoking off of me in WoD and I can't out threat them unless I use provoke and retake the boss. So basically me and this other tank just provoked off one another. I can roh combo till the cows come home and still won't be able to take bosses off unless I provoke off them or they die.

[Cosaint]

They need to fix this. God damn war provoking off of me in WoD and I can't out threat them unless I use provoke and retake the boss. So basically me and this other tank just provoked off one another. I can roh combo till the cows come home and still won't be able to take bosses off unless I provoke off them or they die.

And if they are provoking like retards, why do you want the boss back? There is no gain from being the MT.

[Cosaint]

Their intentions were to simplify the enmity management to a level where it really does not matter anymore. MT can just sit at tank stance without any damage penalty and they will be fine. They have also reduced CD on voke and gave additional enmity to it, just to make things even more easier. What I am really curious about is: how much is that additional enmity provided by voke ? Is that enough to make viable boss pulling with Provoke instead of Shield Lob/ Unmend / Tomahawk so you can pull with an oGCD making your first real GCD a little bit earlier in the fight?

It's definitely not, aggro generation now is off the charts, but the puller must use their pulling skill (Shield Lob, Tomahawk, etc.) Provoke gives a % of the current aggro as a bump, if you provoke on pull you are just going to get 2 points of aggro. Also it's impossible to pull with an oGCD without losing a GCD. Everyone starts at the same time in a proper fight, unless you pull before countdown reaches 1, which in turn makes everyone else lose GCDs.

[Duskane]

Honestly if they want the MT so badly ill just let them

I would insist Dark be MT in 24 man because of TBN

[Niurok]

I tank because that's what I'm playing. No reason on God's green earth to pull off a tank who already has the bosses attention unless your just another weak tank.

[Lyth]

For reference:
Provoke now grants additional enmity equivalent to 353k damage. (Reddit Link)

I understand the reasoning for this, but this is also why Shirk exists. It's supposed to be a hand-off between two complying tanks.

In 24-man content, if another tank comes to provoke off of you when you're actively tanking, they're not taking aggro off you unless they're better geared (in which case, they should be tanking). You'll have full control back within the GCD, and there's no disruption to the fight. Here, the only way to retain it is if you counter-voke, and the cycle repeats itself every thirty seconds until the fight ends or until they get the point. It's not so much an issue in the previous 24-mans, but when the newer stuff comes out, everyone is going to want to have a crack at tanking it.

It's going to end up being incredibly disruptive.

I understand that this is partially a problem of content design, in that there's only really one interesting tanking role in 24-mans that needs to be shared between three tanks. I suppose an alternative solution is to give every team in the alliance a shot to play the 'main role', with the boss debuffing your team on death such that you have to swap teams around for the next fight. That way, you could have three bosses, across which all three tanks would each get a shot at, and then a final boss which actually involves three tanks by design.

[Cosaint]

I understand that this is partially a problem of content design, in that there's only really one interesting tanking role in 24-mans that needs to be shared between three tanks. I suppose an alternative solution is to give every team in the alliance a shot to play the 'main role', with the boss debuffing your team on death such that you have to swap teams around for the next fight. That way, you could have three bosses, across which all three tanks would each get a shot at, and then a final boss which actually involves three tanks by design.

Japan already fixed this issue way back in ARR. The unspoken rule is, Alliance B is MT, unless they agree in chat otherwise.

[Niurok]

I tank therefore I am. I don't do craft-grunt work. If I want to do that then I'll play dps. Same thing happened in CM or whatever it's called the quicker mqs. Damn drk just pulls threat off of me like it's nothing. I understand completely that PLD doesn't have cheap threat moves like drk or war or a nigh-infinite duration attack buff.