Is GNB bad or is TBN too good?

[Cosaint]

Too good might be the right way to call it. I already noticed how I barely got it to break against the mini-bosses in the very first new Dungeon. It was basically me just throwing away 3000MP because it wouldn't break. So I just said screw it, and took the damage.

That's because you are using it wrong. You are supposed to use it during pulls for mitigation, because it's certainly will break. If you want to use it during boss fights, use it only for tankbuster without extra mitigation.

[ShinShimon]

That is simply not true, DRK now has the best AoE damage of all tanks, thanks to Flood of Shadow/Darkness being weaved between Quietus Delirium spam, on top of Salted Earth. (not to mention Abyssal Drain being oGCD)
The Blackest Night also is the best self mitigation in the game, not only for being spammable, but also completely DPS neutral while increasing your effective HP by 1/4 of maximum value.

DRK is just broken in every way, especially in dungeons. I also suspect that DRK is going to be mandatory for high-end content.

My healer friend vastly prefers healing other tanks over DRK in dungeons (granted, he has little experience with lvl 80 GNBs so far). TBN is great but it's the only thing we have over other tanks. We have one usable self-heal on a 90s cooldown (useless as a heal outside of dungeon pulls, but that's beside the point), and our two job-specific % damage down CDs are both locked to magic damage, which in dungeon pulls is usually tied to dodgeable AoEs. PAL meanwhile has a whole host of CDs that apply to dungeon pulls, an actual invuln, and an on-demand self-heal that provides at least as much survivability as TBN.

[gumas]

*see thread title*

nah its PLD fault for getting too good

jk

[Lersayil]

My healer friend vastly prefers healing other tanks over DRK in dungeons (granted, he has little experience with lvl 80 GNBs so far). TBN is great but it's the only thing we have over other tanks. We have one usable self-heal on a 90s cooldown (useless as a heal outside of dungeon pulls, but that's beside the point), and our two job-specific % damage down CDs are both locked to magic damage, which in dungeon pulls is usually tied to dodgeable AoEs. PAL meanwhile has a whole host of CDs that apply to dungeon pulls, an actual invuln, and an on-demand self-heal that provides at least as much survivability as TBN.

Basically this. TBN is awesome for dungeon pulls, but we pay for it with a hefty cd on our sustain (AD which only works on aoe pulls), and only having two mitigation cd's for those occasions. I've no experience with other tanks on 80, but on DRK I really do feel a bit... unstable? Unsafe? On AOE pulls. When you put TBN up you have a decent relief window, but when it breaks, your hp becomes a bit spiky. Rampart, Shadow Wall, and AD can somewhat stabilize this period, but the uptime is rather low on those.

You get used to it as a tank, but I can certainly see healers disliking this rotation between our HP not moving at all and then eating ALL the damage at once until TBN comes up again.

[Cosaint]

TBN is great but it's the only thing we have over other tanks. We have one usable self-heal on a 90s cooldown (useless as a heal outside of dungeon pulls, but that's beside the point), and our two job-specific % damage down CDs are both locked to magic damage, which in dungeon pulls is usually tied to dodgeable AoEs. PAL meanwhile has a whole host of CDs that apply to dungeon pulls, an actual invuln, and an on-demand self-heal that provides at least as much survivability as TBN.

But you are forgetting some stuff. Abyssal Drain is not just a heal, it's free AoE damage and TBN is an oGCD available every 15s (shortest defensive CD of all tanks).
It's true that PLD has HG and Clemency, but the former can only be used twice per dungeon and the latter requires you to stop attacking. They are strong moves with strong costs. TBN has virtually no cost, by other hand.
You can still use your magical CDs in dungeons, but it requires you to analyze what is and what isn't magical damage.

I am not replying to say that DRK has better survivability than a PLD, but DRK is not that far behind. GNB and WAR by other hand, they are completely screwed without healers, WARs at least until Nascent Flash.

[Lersayil]

You can still use your magical CDs in dungeons, but it requires you to analyze what is and what isn't magical damage.

If we're talking about aoe pulls, he's not wrong though. I struggle to recall many aoe groups that have any relevant amount of magical damage in it, effectively making two of our cooldowns pointless in these situations.

But just to be clear, on boss fight situtations I think they're fine as is.

[Cosaint]

If we're talking about aoe pulls, he's not wrong though. I struggle to recall many aoe groups that have any relevant amount of magical damage in it, effectively making two of our cooldowns pointless in these situations.

Mostly everything with elemental damage is magical, like an Aero, a Fire Breath or Water Attack. While physical attacks are usually punches, scratches, bites, slashes, thrusts... You get the idea.
But then, what else PLD has? They lost Bulwark and Divine Veil doesn't work on yourself. Clemency can save your life, but it comes at a cost of a GCD and potentially a Holy Circle. PoA only works from the front and you need to stop attacking, I wouldn't even call it a viable cooldown. The only real edge is Hallowed Ground, which doesn't come so often. If you are paired with a bad healer, PLD can make it work with severe DPS cost, but it's not really the tank's job to play for two.

[ShinShimon]

If we're talking about aoe pulls, he's not wrong though. I struggle to recall many aoe groups that have any relevant amount of magical damage in it, effectively making two of our cooldowns pointless in these situations.

But just to be clear, on boss fight situtations I think they're fine as is.

Yeah, on bosses DRK feels great. In trash pulls, we spam TBN on cooldown and hope we don't die.

[Valic]

GNB's mitigation needs a buff imo. I feel as though every time I want to pull everything, either in fates or long pulls in a dungeon.. I HAVE to pop 2-3 things. 1 By itself never feels like it is enough, especially when you consider healers getting nerfed a bit. Camoflauge, Aurora, heart of light, and heart of stone need some form of buff. Thank goodness we have the role skill that applies heavy to trash mobs, that really helps more than I expected it to.

[Barachim]

If you want to use it during boss fights, use it only for tankbuster without extra mitigation.

No, really?! Still didn't break.