Still a mnk main just looking for others who enjoy the job

[stormiekni]

Basically you stay in FoF for the majority of your opener, then move to FoW (GL4) when you enter your looping rotation. Once you have GL4 and about 1200 SkS you are able to sneak in 2 True Strikes while still keeping up Twin Snakes.

Also note our opener is now about half as long as it was in SB.

[whiskeybravo]

And I'm very happy to have a solid AoE rotation now and not having the feeling to be a burden to the party when there are more than 2 enemies arround. Also a casual positive: No more worries about running low on TP.

I'm always perplexed at the sentiment that monk didn't have AoE. Granted, I didn't play it in SB, but in HW it was my second most played job behind DRG (which was my main at the time). I always took my MNK in dungeons since I raided on DRG, and never failed to be top damage dealer. MNK aoe was strong AF. Maybe that changed in SB and I didn't realize.. But I've seen the complaint about monk aoe a lot over the years and never understood it.

[ValStormbreaker]

Basically you stay in FoF for the majority of your opener, then move to FoW (GL4) when you enter your looping rotation. Once you have GL4 and about 1200 SkS you are able to sneak in 2 True Strikes while still keeping up Twin Snakes.

Also note our opener is now about half as long as it was in SB.

WE KNOW. It's not a fun opener to play, it's extraordinarily clumsy compared to how smooth SB's MNK opener was and it's incredibly slow. In other words, it is antithetical to how MNK mains want to play the job and nobody likes it. I will also say there's more you can do with SSS in that rotation you're not taking into account but since the opener you keep providing isn't fun to use anyway the point is kind of moot. Nobody enjoys relying on server ticks and the loss of DPS uptime with Anatman to get a GL stack, and watch this be patched out like it has been every time a job had something like this players were able to exploit.

All we need are two oGCDs where at least one of them gives a GL stack and that will literally fix all the problems MNK has right now.

I'm always perplexed at the sentiment that monk didn't have AoE. Granted, I didn't play it in SB, but in HW it was my second most played job behind DRG (which was my main at the time). I always took my MNK in dungeons since I raided on DRG, and never failed to be top damage dealer. MNK aoe was strong AF. Maybe that changed in SB and I didn't realize.. But I've seen the complaint about monk aoe a lot over the years and never understood it.

MNK had AoE, and even Howling Fist was a line AoE (this has been largely replaced by Enlightenment, which doesn't need a 60-second recast). I don't know who is telling you otherwise. The problem with SB MNK's AoE combo (the "Rockbreaker" combo) had a really pathetic single target skill as the second attack (One-ilm Punch) and keeping the damage up with the single-target attacks Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes made it annoying to use Arm of the Destroyer and Rockbreaker. They made it nicer to use by replacing One-ilm Punch with the AoE Four-Point Fury, which lets you keep the Twin Snakes buff without having to constantly break away from the AoE combo. Even better that you also don't need to reapply Dragon Kick during it so you can just AoE until the cows come home, especially now that TP has been removed as the Rockbreaker combo was VERY TP-hungry.

So in SB, your AoE utility was cut short by TP limitations and having your damage output reduced by having to deal with single-target skills that cut down on your AoE damage output. It was annoying.

I will say 5.0's AoE is a SIGNIFICANT improvement. It's now the single-target rotation that needs a bit of work, and unfortunately the AoE rotation does suffer a bit when you drop your GL stacks in a dungeon. Nobody finds having to run ahead of the tank in a vain attempt to avoid your stacks dropping to be fun.

[whiskeybravo]

So in SB, your AoE utility was cut short by TP limitations and having your damage output reduced by having to deal with single-target skills that cut down on your AoE damage output. It was annoying.

It was just combination of voices throughout the years. Sounds more or less the way it was in HW, but I guess it didn't seem undertuned to me in that regard (like, the aoe damage was still strong despite having to use a ST ability in between).. At least, relative to that time period. Thanks for a more detailed explanation tho!

[Rockette]

Even though the TK rotation was absolutely not what SE intended, it gave Monk something it hasn't had ever over any expansions. Depth. A new rotation. Not the same plodding 1 2 3 we've been doing for 6 years.

Then they swiftly removed any nonsense of that and we're back to 2.0 Monk.

Monk has never evolved. Greased Lightning 4 is barely noticeable, no new animation, no changes in rotation, nothing.

[Drayos]

I will start off no matter what I will keep playing MNK.

It is just that what they did with MNK was take away something (Dbl TK combo) that added an extra layer of skill to the Job it even added to the theme, a difficult Job to master but once you do your pDPS rivals almost anyone.

I love MNK and I will keep playing it but I also want to see changes done because I love the Job. I believe that there are even small changes that could be done to make the job feel EONS better than it does now.

Either way keep on punching on!

as far as i know the problem was, Double TK combo was Never ment to be a thing, much like previously we saw in Ninja getting a Really high skill ceiling Combo accidently due to some Changes it would have always been removed, but due to that its at a Skill ceiling which was never ment to exist for the job.

It makes little sense when taking Summoner and Machinist into account though, layering both With Additional mechanics While sat on highly busy Rotations to begin with and more, as far as i can see Summoner is lying on HW Levels of layering, but given their aim was to increase monks popularity, and it seems to have done nothing to aid that with every source still proving its a Underplayed Job, we may see some changes.

this is my major problem with it tbh.

Sure, SB Monk could be considered too difficult for the Average Player, this would have been a Valid point, if they hadn't raised the Skill Curve for both Summoner and Ninja Massively and Added Mechanical Layering Intense Rotations such as machinist, i'd put all 3 of those Above the average players Skill capacity, Keeping up with any of these 3 Jobs Mechanically and Optimally while performing Raid Mechanics is likely no small feat at all, and on a Average Player, Learning fights and not having the time to mindless Farm and master every detail are prolly nearing impossible to truely maximise.

they didnt Simplify a System, they merely moved the Difficulty to another job. which makes 0 sense as it trampled onto high populated Jobs Such as Summoner, which upset a larger crowd, where we already expected such gameplay from the monk, hence why its had a Smaller Cult following.

Do i want Monk to revert to Double TK, Not really, i dont think the fix is to merely Revert the jobback to SB for another 2years, but they do need to change something up.

Monk just needs something to spruce up its ST rotation up alittle add alittle more Element to it and to flow nicely with room to Optimise, I guess Monk will get changes, i cant see SE really taking the route of waiting 2 years, They can see its Dramatically Less played compared to other jobs and its the job thats been getting the most Negative Feedback. ( I reliese things like MCH Does, but its not a gameplay problem, its a Ping Problem on those parts, which isnt as Much of a gameplay failure as Monk )

Im not experienced enough with Monk to really know.

but i dunno.

i feel a good move would be just to move monk to a 1.5GCD permanantly.

Rework Greased Lightning to work around Success Combos+Positionals.

Rework Riddle of Fire - the Slowed down combat isnt really needed now we have nothing to double Weave

Make Fist of Wind and Fist of Fire more Impactful to make Buff Swapping more worthwhile for different parts of a Fight.

maybe implement a Riddle of Wind, Which Increases the Greased Lightning procs, so we can have like a 10-15second period of Just bursting out Tornado Kicks. With TK OGCD on a 1.5GCD... we'd see some Super fast gameplay burst on our Openers.

im not entirely sold on the Chakra idea either, but i dont mind it, just feel its a Entire mechanic Just to let u know to press a button. i feel like Chakra could be used to do something cooler.

i think it could work better then, If u could Proc Greased Lightning From playing correctly, such as Bonuses from Positionals+Combos, then for Riddle of Wind Double whats given, 2 Combos = 1 TK, on a 1.5GCD, Over a 15sec Buff on the Opener... i think it'd add more to that opening moment, it wont be Double TK.. but it'd be a Moment of Noticable burst and Will add that flavor of getting everything right to get that reward.

then if Riddle of Fire and Earth are reworked to both go along with this Fast paced Synergy, they could Fit through the rotation changing things up for Smaller Impact through the Normal Rotation.

back into Riddle of Wind burst window.

it'd give the fast gameplay, We'd See Multiple Rotations which would add flavor of being a Martial Artist, Which combo+positional Rewards to give that Combo feel to the job. Im sure Someone could iterate on the idea better.. with more knowledge. but it'd of been atleast a alternative to Double TK.

[Telefrag]

I do think it can be "fun" but not really for a long time. But keeping up your GL stacks will only be a limited minigame that will never outweigh the optimization and fun it was to figure out TK rotations. TK rotations were fun because you could practice on a dummy and get the rotation down, and figure out ways to keep it rolling on savage bosses.

Keeping your GL stacks by default with boring skills like 6 sided star and Anatman are just paint over an old system. Putting lipstick on the pig, as some would say. MNK is a class that hasn't evolved much since ARR, just now you have some retention skills. They took away your oGCD's in favor of some flash with chakra stacks. I don't get why people are mistaken on this feeling good. This means less control over your character and how they gain dmg. This also means windows for said damage are less controllable (even with a skill like brotherhood).

Ultimately this isn't good in a lot of people's opinion, and it lowers the overall skill ceiling and enticing stuff that made monk fun to play and optimize. There will always be people who don't feel this way I understand. I'm sort of confused how this is fun, I leveled this job to 80 first and tried to find fun in it. But removing Internal Release and making the class simplistic again didn't make me enjoy it.

Though this post was poorly written, I feel like the problem is Monk will never be a job I spend a lot of time on in it's current state. Being a monk "main" won't happen with this iteration, it'll be like a lot of the playerbase that has all jobs at 80 that only plays each class once in a while. I don't see a point in spending a lot of time on a job that only has a few optimizations and keeps GL stacks for free.