ShB bard has turned me into a ball of rage and depression

[Aiscence]

Probably in an attempt to make it more enticing to newer players. As stated, it's easy to pick up, fun to play, but was difficult to master. I supposed they figured the less the bard had to manage the easier it would be. Thing is, I still get into groups where bards just refuse to use their battle voice, simply because they don't receive the benefits from doing so, so why bother? At this point, with all the changes and there is no reason why we shouldn't be under its effect as well. Plus, it might encourage the bards that never think to use it because it doesn't buff them a reason to actually used the darned thing.

Monk gives out brotherhood
Dragoon gives out battle litany
Machinist has the new re worked tactician
Dancer gives out technical finish

Bards are the only ones at the present that give out party wide buff and still DOESN'T benefit themselves from casting it. This needs to be looked into.

Nono, mch tactician is the same as troubadour, they have no raid buff in any way that affect dps!

[Fellgon]

Pretty sure I've mentioned it elsewhere but I noticed Bard mains being very unhappy with the changes while those simply having Bard leveled up being happy with the changes. Am curious as well about Japan's view on things as it seems their voice is usually heard over ours, alas I do not speak Japanese.
Still undecided as my go-to class for this expac (that is not Fisher) as Bard was my first love too.

they listen japan customers cause they dont demand things like theyr be rulers of the game. Make them be more humble than some customers in NA forum.

they dont star a post with a "do your job", "your game is junk" in the tittle.

[HyoMinPark]

they listen japan customers cause they dont demand things like theyr be rulers of the game. Make them be more humble than some customers in NA forum.

There have been a fairly decent number of calm, well-worded requests put forth by NA players that still get ignored until someone from JP brings them up (e.g., BRD/MCH reliance on piercing has been a fairly large complaint since HW from the NA side, with players requesting that BRD/MCH no longer be so reliant on a DRG for a portion of their damage—but the developers didn’t make any note or mention of it until a JP interview surfaced where a JP player mentioned it). I think language barrier may play a role in this, but I also want to address that not every NA player thinks they are a “ruler of the game”. Honestly, I’m tired of seeing generalized comments like this.

[Fellgon]

There have been a fairly decent number of calm, well-worded requests put forth by NA players that still get ignored until someone from JP brings them up (e.g., BRD/MCH reliance on piercing has been a fairly large complaint since HW from the NA side, with players requesting that BRD/MCH no longer be so reliant on a DRG for a portion of their damage—but the developers didn’t make any note or mention of it until a JP interview surfaced where a JP player mentioned it). I think language barrier may play a role in this, but I also want to address that not every NA player thinks they are a “ruler of the game”. Honestly, I’m tired of seeing generalized comments like this.

I khow dont worry, i didnt meant to offend. Im not saying all NA are bad, even in my contry you can find bad behavion people. Dont worry. My apologies!

[HyoMinPark]

Warden's is fine, Nature's Minne WAS fine, until now, where it's CD time has increased from 45s to 90s. I'm also very happy they kept troubadour, though I personally wish it still functioned as it did in SB.

The trade off with Nature’s Minne higher cooldown is probably that it seems like it also affects healing abilities (so things like Essential Dignity and Lustrate). If this is true, that is probably why it’s cooldown is higher now. Since oGCD healing abilities are far more prevalent in high-end healing compared to GCD healing spells.

As for Troubadour, I wish it still had the 30s duration with it being 180s still (I think, if it’s going to be 15 seconds, perhaps lower the CD to 120s instead). But I do not miss the reliance it had on which song you were currently in. 9 times out of 10, you were always wanting the magical mitigation from Troubadour Minuet, since most raidwide AOEs are magic damage and it gets you the most bang for your buck. Troubadour Paeon was useful in dungeons for trash pulls, sure, and during 1 mechanic for o11s (Electric Slide + Big Punchy Punchy fists)—but other than that, it wasn’t used often; and I don’t recall any point where Mage’s Troubadour was ever used in lieu of Troubadour Minuet (outside of wanting to murder your raid mates with drop to 1 HP mechanics).

[Suniva]

Nono, mch tactician is the same as troubadour, they have no raid buff in any way that affect dps!

My mistake, haven't been sleeping much since pre release xD

[Xieldras]

I'm not especially attached to being a "support job" either way, and I think Minne and Warden's are neat for what it's worth - "support" does not have to solely mean damage boosts.

The passive song buff had minimal gameplay impact / wasn't interactive at all, so it's really just the loss of Foe that stings in terms of function, but I can't wholly disagree with SE wanting to get rid of something as wonky as it was (and unlikely to rework into anything interesting).

It's true that the passive crit boost that songs gave didn't do much difference, but I enjoyed the symbolism of it. Bards gave a morale boost to allies and the passive showed that. I would've preferred if it was reworked into something else instead.

SB Bard's support set wasn't really about offensive boosts (Foe, BV), but rather mostly mitigation and utility (Refresh, Tactician, Minne, Palissade, Paean and Troubadour). That part is what we mostly lost in the new expansion (Our utility and mitigation was reduced by half, that's a lot).

I never really thought of Foes as wonky. You needed to cast it every 90 seconds at the start of your DPS burst window (Minuet). MP bar full? Cast Foes. Bard is a very mobile class so you could dodge mechanics easily while taking 3 seconds to cast it. You could even press Foes again to remove its effect if you hit a boss invulnerability part.
Foes was also a small reminder that Bard was/is (in the series) a class with magic elements to it.

they listen japan customers cause they dont demand things like theyr be rulers of the game. Make them be more humble than some customers in NA forum.

Japan has a very important part of their culture about not causing trouble. Given that context, I would like to see their true emotions behind the changes.
I also don't see how voicing our opinions loud and clear makes us "rulers of the game". We are paying customers and are entitled to voice our concerns when the game takes a worrying direction (see gender-locked classes, despite the FF14 team promising no gender-locked races ever again when they unlocked Miqote and Roes).

I see a lot of people calmly giving feedback that is never taken into account by the Dev team until someone from Japan asks about it. It might be because of a lack of Mods on our side of the game, might be because of the language barrier.
Being ignored when going through the proper channels to give your reasoning about something (sometimes being massive written texts that no doubt took hours to create) will definitely ruffle feathers and make people give more angry feedback next time. It doesn't help that outrage culture is a thing, but it is the Mods job in my opinion to learn to dissociate good feedback from outrage and give said feedback to the team.

[Xieldras]

it wasn’t used often; and I don’t recall any point where Mage’s Troubadour was ever used in lieu of Troubadour Minuet (outside of wanting to murder your raid mates with drop to 1 HP mechanics).

Wait, you mean I could've trolled people with this?! Dang it, now I'm sad that's gone xD

[Fellgon]

It's true that the passive crit boost that songs gave didn't do much difference, but I enjoyed the symbolism of it. Bards gave a morale boost to allies and the passive showed that. I would've preferred if it was reworked into something else instead.

SB Bard's support set wasn't really about offensive boosts (Foe, BV), but rather mostly mitigation and utility (Refresh, Tactician, Minne, Palissade, Paean and Troubadour). That part is what we mostly lost in the new expansion (Our utility and mitigation was reduced by half, that's a lot).

I never really thought of Foes as wonky. You needed to cast it every 90 seconds at the start of your DPS burst window (Minuet). MP bar full? Cast Foes. Bard is a very mobile class so you could dodge mechanics easily while taking 3 seconds to cast it. You could even press Foes again to remove its effect if you hit a boss invulnerability part.
Foes was also a small reminder that Bard was/is (in the series) a class with magic elements to it.



Japan has a very important part of their culture about not causing trouble. Given that context, I would like to see their true emotions behind the changes.
I also don't see how voicing our opinions loud and clear makes us "rulers of the game". We are paying customers and are entitled to voice our concerns when the game takes a worrying direction (see gender-locked classes, despite the FF14 team promising no gender-locked races ever again when they unlocked Miqote and Roes).

I see a lot of people calmly giving feedback that is never taken into account by the Dev team until someone from Japan asks about it. It might be because of a lack of Mods on our side of the game, might be because of the language barrier.
Being ignored when going through the proper channels to give your reasoning about something (sometimes being massive written texts that no doubt took hours to create) will definitely ruffle feathers and make people give more angry feedback next time. It doesn't help that outrage culture is a thing, but it is the Mods job in my opinion to learn to dissociate good feedback from outrage and give said feedback to the team.

My apologies.

[Suniva]

-snip-

For Nature's Minne trade off, yea, that actually does make a bit of sense. Have you been able to try it out yet?

As for troubadour, it's reliance on the song was what made it fun for me. Don't ask me why, but I thoroughly enjoyed it (and I know I'm in the minority in that regards). Nevertheless, as it is now, it is far more reliable rather than a flimsy mitigation tool, I do realize that.