Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Nononu]

Oh joy, it's this runaround again.

Right? I'm not even bothering. I've said my piece, I did what I could. This argument isn't for this vent thread, and I already know which side I'm on, and I don't see a reason to change my mind on it since it's changing tomorrow anyway.

[Mixt]

So you expect the DPS and healers to use their aggro mitigation even when it's on cooldown?

How would that even work, it's on cooldown, they already used it, if they are ripping aggro under those circumstances then it's entirely the tanks fault.

That's like the healer going "I shouldn't need to heal the tank, they can just keep their invuln up all the time" and "I don't care it's on cooldown, use your invuln or die lol"


And i'm saying this as a tank main.

[ForteNightshade]

So you expect the DPS and healers to use their aggro mitigation even when it's on cooldown?

How would that even work, it's on cooldown, they already used it, if they are ripping aggro under those circumstances then it's entirely the tanks fault.

That's like the healer going "I shouldn't need to heal the tank, they can just keep their invuln up all the time" and "I don't care it's on cooldown, use your invuln or die lol"


And i'm saying this as a tank main.

If they're on cooldown and used properly, you won't have aggro. Diversion suppresses 90% of your enmity. Unless the tank is horribly undergeared, it won't be an issue. Proper Lucid timings falls under the same mindset except in certain fights like Godka.

Anywho, this is a moot point now. Enmity is a non-issue going forward.

[Seraph522]

Speaking of undergeared tanks... just got out of an EX roulette run of The Burn. The other DPS was new but did a solid job otherwise - healer had to rescue them a few times for mechanics, but their damage output was good and they avoided attacks as they should. Healer was solid too. Our tank, however, really doesn't understand how to gear up: they had a Rakshasa weapon, which was good, but their right-side gear was the ilvl 360-380 stuff while the only non-AF piece of armor they had equipped was their waist gear. Not only were they falling apart if the mobs so much as sneezed at them, I was barely keeping from yanking aggro from them even with Lucid and Diversion on cooldown. And I'm pretty sure he was in Shield Oath the entire time, too.

Something tells me that undergeared tanks will still cause aggro problems in Shadowbringers if they continue to pull stunts like that.

[DevonEllwood]

Ohh yes I can attest that there have been people like this. I've been levelling my hated jobs lately to 60 for GARO titles, and so not running as healer as I usually do. I keep seeing people refuse to apply protect, and quite a few scholars who refuse to DPS at all and when asked about why they stand there, say that they made it so healers don't DPS anymore in SHB so they don't have to. >< Why why why.

My FC leader has gotten several healers who are "preparing" for the expansion by not dpsing. They're preparing for something by doing nothing. This is beyond my comprehension.

I did one last Tower run for moogle tomes to get a dino to sell. I also wanted to use all the scholar things that are going away, even Selene. My sound and music cut out halfway through the first trash pull killing half the fun

[KaleShibata]

So you expect the DPS and healers to use their aggro mitigation even when it's on cooldown?

How would that even work, it's on cooldown, they already used it, if they are ripping aggro under those circumstances then it's entirely the tanks fault.

That's like the healer going "I shouldn't need to heal the tank, they can just keep their invuln up all the time" and "I don't care it's on cooldown, use your invuln or die lol"


And i'm saying this as a tank main.

I'm so glad these back and forths are going to be so pointless when ShB comes out myself.

Commentary outbursts on preferance are probably my least favorite thing to see anywhere, and it makes me dread using DF and has made me refuse to touch raids unless I personally know every person going. (spoilers I've not done ANY OF THEM. None. no plans to either in random groups.) So glad I'll be removing another source of my irritation with the Trust system, I've never cared about clear times, just the 'no one died' part of the run really.

[Driavna]

I'm so glad these back and forths are going to be so pointless when ShB comes out myself.

Commentary outbursts on preferance are probably my least favorite thing to see anywhere, and it makes me dread using DF and has made me refuse to touch raids unless I personally know every person going. (spoilers I've not done ANY OF THEM. None. no plans to either in random groups.) So glad I'll be removing another source of my irritation with the Trust system, I've never cared about clear times, just the 'no one died' part of the run really.

This doesn't have anything to do with preferences or performance. A player either uses all the tool kit his job has or he doesn't. Off-tanks not using taunt+shirk or ninjas not using shadewalker are really common. But this doesn't end there, players not using feint or addle to help with mitigating damage are extremely common too.

[Kaylessa]

A tank can still hold enmity and perform all of their tanking duties without being in their stance. It just requires DPS to exert next to no effort to manage theirs as well—in other words, press an oGCD every ~2 minutes. Sucks to have a bit more responsibility, I guess. Kind of wish enmity wasn’t being made such a joke in a couple days.

If you’re on WHM (which is the healer with the most egregious aggro problems), you will have zero MP issues even if you have to hit Lucid early to cut aggro—what with Assize every 45 seconds and Thin Air every 120. In fights that have aggro resets, it’s almost necessary for WHMs to do cut their hate with Lucid—otherwise, they risk getting smacked if there’s not a PLD around to cover them for it. See WHMs and God Kefka or WHMs and Neo-Exdeath.

ASTs have built-in enmity reduction with their sects. If they are ripping hate, it’s usually from very healing intensive scenarios or they’re blatantly overhealing way too much. SCH’s healing enmity is split between them and their fairy. So WHM is really the only one that has to sometimes use Lucid for aggro—good thing they also have the best MP economy of the three!

It is not a DPS's job to help the tank to hold emnity, it is a damage dealers job to do damage. I suspect the community's insistence on having healers and DPS help the tanks do their job is partly why it's being changed.

As for WHM, it depends what content your doing. Assize and Thin Air are post 54 level spells. WHM is notorious bad on mana all through ARR and halfway through HW. Not all content is end game.

[Driavna]

It is not a DPS's job to help the tank to hold emnity, it is a damage dealers job to do damage. I suspect the community's insistence on having healers and DPS help the tanks do their job is partly why it's being changed.

As for WHM, it depends what content your doing. Assize and Thin Air are post 54 level spells. WHM is notorious bad on mana all through ARR and halfway through HW. Not all content is end game.

"Is not other jobs to provide mana for the healer" "Is not other jobs rez players" "Is not other jobs use tools to reduce incoming damage" "Is not other jobs to use self mitigation skills or heals" The worst part is until next expansion there is DPS job with tools to help tanks with enmity and diversion is there to be used.

Anyway, you are just really rude with new players. I mean, not the first time even with tank stance active tanks struggle with keeping agro, but hey, sorry... not my job hitting diversion!

[Kaylessa]

We can stick to our DPS stance and deal pure damage and still hold enmity easily, however that means DPS putting in next to no effort.

How dare we expect DPS to press a button every 2 minutes. That is so complex my god.

As for the healer bit, I play healers as well mind you, all 3 of them. And pretty well at that. You can almost always both use it to lower enmity and your own MP. Stop with the excuses that you think entitle you to be lazy and throw all the responsibility on one player when realistically speaking, as it is now, it's on the entire team. Not one player.

I regularly shirk people like you who ignore enmity issues and refuse to use your skills to lower it.

I main a healer. Shirk me and I'll lucid dreaming, then won't heal you for the rest of the fight. I'll also rescue you into every AOE that appears. Good luck.

The tank's role is to hold emnity. The community likes the tank to tank poorly in order to increase DPS with the rest of the group picking up the slack and that's fine, sure, but I like each role to main their job first and foremost.