Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[HyoMinPark]

I think a lot of these emnity generation problems will disappear with 5.0 For future reference though (you weren't in the wrong in my opinion) if you're having trouble with aggro as a healer, lucid dreaming will decrease your emnity by half I hate how tanks expect DPS and healers to pop diversion and lucid so they can max DPS and am glad that's going away

I mean, it's going away now, but cutting your aggro as a DPS literally costs you nothing while tanks suffer a damage loss because you don't want to weave in an oGCD. Never understood why that's so hard to do.

WHM aggro is also worse now thanks to Assize being on a much shorter CD - using it every 45 seconds usually always guarantees a giant overheal, and it actually negated the enmity reductions they added to some of the healing GCDs back in Patch 4.5.

[Crystal_Raven]

I think a lot of these emnity generation problems will disappear with 5.0 For future reference though (you weren't in the wrong in my opinion) if you're having trouble with aggro as a healer, lucid dreaming will decrease your emnity by half I hate how tanks expect DPS and healers to pop diversion and lucid so they can max DPS and am glad that's going away

I hate how DPS and healers refuse to pop diversion and lucid when needed so the tank has to stop their rotation just to settle enmity thus reducing their damage output and making the dungeon longer.

[Kaylessa]

I mean, it's going away now, but cutting your aggro as a DPS literally costs you nothing while tanks suffer a damage loss because you don't want to weave in an oGCD. Never understood why that's so hard to do.

WHM aggro is also worse now thanks to Assize being on a much shorter CD - using it every 45 seconds usually always guarantees a giant overheal, and it actually negated the enmity reductions they added to some of the healing GCDs back in Patch 4.5.

It's not hard to do, it's just a system to allow the tank to not do their job. The tank's primary purpose is to control emnity, requiring the healer and the DPS to lower their aggro is essentially them doing the tank's job for them. Yes it maxes DPS but it doesn't sit comfortably with me, so I'm glad it's gone.

[Kaylessa]

I hate how DPS and healers refuse to pop diversion and lucid when needed so the tank has to stop their rotation just to settle enmity thus reducing their damage output and making the dungeon longer.

The primary use of lucid is to replenish mp, which can also be used to drop aggro. It's not in a healer's toolkit primarily to make the life of a tank easier. Especially when you're pugging. More often than not lucid is on cooldown for me when I'm healing in duty finder, so if I'm up the top on aggro the tank will usually just have to deal (and I shouldn't be when I'm constantly whacking it)

[Nononu]

I think a lot of these emnity generation problems will disappear with 5.0 For future reference though (you weren't in the wrong in my opinion) if you're having trouble with aggro as a healer, lucid dreaming will decrease your emnity by half I hate how tanks expect DPS and healers to pop diversion and lucid so they can max DPS and am glad that's going away

Yes! I had popped Lucid because I know it reduces enmity some, but even though I kind of was trying to move Susano over to the tanks (and I had -not- turned him towards anyone else, but I didn't notice my cohealer following along behind me, of course making it my fault she got cleaved and we both died), there was a HUGE amount of time where I did not see them do ANYTHING. AT ALL. To get aggro back. There was literally NOTHING I could have done in that situation. I was being VERY careful of when I popped any regens + assize as I -do- know those increase enmity a whole butt-tonze.

I'm not sorry for agreeing though that it was entirely not my job to somehow magically make sure the tanks had aggro there. They just should have gotten it back before I died, there was a big window. xD It wouldn't be hard. Tanks don't need BIG DEEPS NUMBERS/MUH DEEPS in story mode trials or dungeons.

[HyoMinPark]

It's not hard to do, it's just a system to allow the tank to not do their job. The tank's primary purpose is to control emnity, requiring the healer and the DPS to lower their aggro is essentially them doing the tank's job for them. Yes it maxes DPS but it doesn't sit comfortably with me, so I'm glad it's gone.

A tank can still hold enmity and perform all of their tanking duties without being in their stance. It just requires DPS to exert next to no effort to manage theirs as well—in other words, press an oGCD every ~2 minutes. Sucks to have a bit more responsibility, I guess. Kind of wish enmity wasn’t being made such a joke in a couple days.

The primary use of lucid is to replenish mp, which can also be used to drop aggro. It's not in a healer's toolkit primarily to make the life of a tank easier. Especially when you're pugging. More often than not lucid is on cooldown for me when I'm healing in duty finder, so if I'm up the top on aggro the tank will usually just have to deal (and I shouldn't be when I'm constantly whacking it)

If you’re on WHM (which is the healer with the most egregious aggro problems), you will have zero MP issues even if you have to hit Lucid early to cut aggro—what with Assize every 45 seconds and Thin Air every 120. In fights that have aggro resets, it’s almost necessary for WHMs to do cut their hate with Lucid—otherwise, they risk getting smacked if there’s not a PLD around to cover them for it. See WHMs and God Kefka or WHMs and Neo-Exdeath.

ASTs have built-in enmity reduction with their sects. If they are ripping hate, it’s usually from very healing intensive scenarios or they’re blatantly overhealing way too much. SCH’s healing enmity is split between them and their fairy. So WHM is really the only one that has to sometimes use Lucid for aggro—good thing they also have the best MP economy of the three!

[Crystal_Raven]

The primary use of lucid is to replenish mp, which can also be used to drop aggro. It's not in a healer's toolkit primarily to make the life of a tank easier. Especially when you're pugging. More often than not lucid is on cooldown for me when I'm healing in duty finder, so if I'm up the top on aggro the tank will usually just have to deal (and I shouldn't be when I'm constantly whacking it)

We can stick to our DPS stance and deal pure damage and still hold enmity easily, however that means DPS putting in next to no effort.

How dare we expect DPS to press a button every 2 minutes. That is so complex my god.

As for the healer bit, I play healers as well mind you, all 3 of them. And pretty well at that. You can almost always both use it to lower enmity and your own MP. Stop with the excuses that you think entitle you to be lazy and throw all the responsibility on one player when realistically speaking, as it is now, it's on the entire team. Not one player.

I regularly shirk people like you who ignore enmity issues and refuse to use your skills to lower it.

[ForteNightshade]

It's not hard to do, it's just a system to allow the tank to not do their job. The tank's primary purpose is to control emnity, requiring the healer and the DPS to lower their aggro is essentially them doing the tank's job for them. Yes it maxes DPS but it doesn't sit comfortably with me, so I'm glad it's gone.

No. It turns enmity into a team responsibility instead of just being on the tank. Considering Diversion is an oGCD, one a lot of DPS use prepull. There is zero excuse beyond sheer laziness for DPS players to whine about pressing it. You're making the tank work harder or sacrifice their damage—which loses the entire raid's damage. All because you can't be bothered to press a button that doesn't impact your rotation in the slightest.

Alas, can't go giving DPS too much responsibility now.

The primary use of lucid is to replenish mp, which can also be used to drop aggro. It's not in a healer's toolkit primarily to make the life of a tank easier. Especially when you're pugging. More often than not lucid is on cooldown for me when I'm healing in duty finder, so if I'm up the top on aggro the tank will usually just have to deal (and I shouldn't be when I'm constantly whacking it)

This means your Lucid Dreaming uses are poor. There are only a handful of instances where healers cannot time it to essentially kill two birds with one stone. And don't think because you're a healer I "just have to deal." If I notice you blatantly ignoring aggro issues I'll still let the boss turn right round and "fix" that problem.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Oh joy, it's this runaround again.

[Bright-Flower]

I had a fifteen minute argument with a FC member a while back trying to nail it in that just because it's a tank's job to hold enmity is no excuse to NOT use diversion since it doesn't affect her dps at all to use. Some people just have a 'it's the tank's job I shouldn't have to worry about it' mentality. Thankfully in SHB this should go away since tanks will have no reason NOT to have enmity on when tanking.