Some mentors...

[Hash_Browns]

That's... just not true.
Almost uniquely, though, XIV parties may also kick you for performing better than the rest of your party if your actions even once force them outside their comfort zone.

"I'm sorry, Tim. You can't be in our party. You solo'd the boss. We can't have someone in the party as good as you are - even if you are the tank. A WARRIOR SHOULD REQUIRE HEALING DAMMIT!"

[Shurrikhan]

"I'm sorry, Tim. You can't be in our party. You solo'd the boss. We can't have someone in the party as good as you are - even if you are the tank. A WARRIOR SHOULD REQUIRE HEALING DAMMIT!"

It was more like "We could have done that faster if you'd just died and reset, <obscenities>!" last time I was kicked for such a reason. Even before they died, I was doing about as much as the dps combined, so with the time necessary to run back to the 2nd Vault boss I'm not sure that's true, but hey, good for them for finally respecting their use of their time I guess?

Trying to figure out that one.

In most cases it is faster to reset, but I have seen tanks solo bosses after healer(s) (me) have died. All the power to people who want to try & do that.

It was my third or fourth time in a row leveling through Vault on Warrior, back during Heavensward. The Monk didn't know what positionals were and always used Dragon, Twin, and Demo only, and the DRG kept clipping his combos short. The second boss took so long that eventually it was a practically death sentence to be knocked back into the walls because of number of vuln orbs stacked around the edges. The healer got knocked back into a particularly bad spot again around 15% HP remaining on the boss and finally died. This was about 60% of the boss's HP after giving up on rezzing said dps, having duo'ed thereafter. I survived off HP pots, my self-heals, Bloodbath, and HG to keep from being knocked back the third time. Barely finished the fight, then was kicked just after the two dullahan-equivalent mobs (again duo'ed the first; DPS helped a bit on the second) after being yelled at by the DPS and neglecting to respond.

...I'd say the weirdness of it makes me remember it better, but, I've seen a handful more cases since, so I guess it's just that that one happened to me.

[Hash_Browns]

It was more like "We could have done that faster if you'd just died and reset, <obscenities>!" last time I was kicked for such a reason. Even before they died, I was doing about as much as the dps combined, so with the time necessary to run back to the 2nd Vault boss I'm not sure that's true, but hey, good for them for finally respecting their use of their time I guess?

Trying to figure out that one.

In most cases it is faster to reset, but I have seen tanks solo bosses after healer(s) (me) have died. All the power to people who want to try & do that.

[Crushnight]

No you don't.
You don't need to adhere to anyone's standard when it comes to entering a dungeon with the roulette system.
The only "standard" you need to live up to is meeting whatever requirements the dungeon throws at your group. If those are met, then it's the end of the discussion.


It's a whole different discussion however in party-finder where groups are formed with clear goals in mind.
There, and only there can standards be set that people need to live up to or be booted from the group.

Strictly speaking, yes, if you can pull of the damage requirements to get through.
You're trying to counter with an extreme though which is moot in being discussed.
It's discussed somewhere else that a minimum ilvl would be good for ALL dungeons to prevent a situation like that.


Heck I'd kick people who just auto-attack, or simply do nothing. Don't misunderstand my post as telling people they can do what they want and be carried 100%.
Some minimum effort is definitely required, but I won't adhere to living up to Bahamut Ultimate standards either in a random dungeon.

These statements contradict each other, you yourself have some standards you expect of others despite the game in no way enforcing them, the game has 1 set of standards the community has another set then finally(the one that should be listened to the least because it has the most extremes in it) are each individual standards.

Most people are reasonable and won't deviate too much from the community + game standards but some people will have ridiciously low/high standards some people will think ice mage is acceptable, just like some people will expect random people to be at a 90% percentile level >_>

[Ilyrian]

You watch people with the crowns displayed and I often think '...and you're a mentor of what exactly?!' Certainly not playing well, in the majority of cases.

[NekoNova]

These statements contradict each other, you yourself have some standards you expect of others despite the game in no way enforcing them, the game has 1 set of standards the community has another set then finally(the one that should be listened to the least because it has the most extremes in it) are each individual standards.

Most people are reasonable and won't deviate too much from the community + game standards but some people will have ridiciously low/high standards some people will think ice mage is acceptable, just like some people will expect random people to be at a 90% percentile level >_>

I definitely have standards and expectations of people when grouping up with them.
I'm not denying that at all., but I don't enforce them. I don't belittle people because they perform poorly, make mistakes etc.
Frankly, I don't care how they perform, cause I'm just there to finish that one dungeon to get my tokens and that's it.


Do I want an iLvl limit on dungeon? Heck yes.
I'd even welcome some kind of DPS checks in the game. Something that hard and clearly says : you don't make the cut for this instance.
But that's the thing, I want this to be controlled by the game/system. Not by players.
But I also believe that players cannot and should not police others when it comes to these checks, simply because the potential for abuse is far too great.


And from experience, I agree. Most people tend to be reasonable, or like me; simply don't care.
And it even depends on what datacenter you play, as I see a clear difference between playing on Chaos or playing on Elemental for example

[Fynlar]

Call me oldschool, but if someone does not have anything to add that it is below 10 characters, why can't said person just move on silently?
"K" as an answer should be considered as spam, no matter how "boring" someone thinks a thread is..

I think constantly posting in big bold text all the time in an attempt to stand out should be considered as disruptive posting, no matter how much of a point they think they might have.

[Kaethra]

You watch people with the crowns displayed and I often think '...and you're a mentor of what exactly?!' Certainly not playing well, in the majority of cases.

All that is required is 1000 dungeons done. As experience has taught anyone, doing something a number of times doesn't make them good at it. The Mentor Roulette has a bit more to it, but anyone can be carried through that content to get the achievement needed.

However the reason for the roulette, contrary to what people believe is to get a body into content people need peeps for and someone who has at least seen the fight once. Roulette will throw mentors into just about anything that needs people. It might be Sashtasha or Nidhogg.

-Next part is to the thread as a whole, not directed at the above quoted.

Everyone has this idea that the mentor should be regulated. That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. First who decides what is right and what is wrong? Would you all be comfortable with -Me- deciding that? Oh of course not, you all have your own ideas. But what God given right makes your ideas better than mine? You don't have that right, your ideal mentor isn't better than mine. Next is the logistical standpoint. You now have people getting whiny because someone did a bad thing, maybe not even an actual thing, maybe they did everything they were supposed to and someone decided to be a dweeb and report them anyway. You all do make a ton of frivolous reports.

So now we've got reports going out like crazy, because FFXIV players tend to rush to that when their feelings get hurt. And what hurts your feelings? Well I am right now for one with just this post. But CoC violations aside, you all get hurt when someone asks if you're a bot (lazy movements on a controller do look like bot movements, and you WILL get lazy on your fifth run through something in a row). You'll get hurt when told to put on a tank stance. You all get hurt when asked for protect. You all get offended when someone offers advice. Or when someone explains a fight (even when you expect a mentor to do this). Or hell, when someone does more damage than you. Yes some of you bastards report people for hacking because you got out damaged (usually by parser, you know the things you all are scared of).

To put it shortly, we can't really trust a GM or burden their time with this sort of thing. Nor do I even trust this community to make reporting of such an issue. You all cannot agree to what a mentor should be. So why should I trust you with the ability to report people for not mentoring properly? I don't trust any of you in this thread. I'm calling it here, you all are too incompetent to use such a feature. Unless you all want to cede judgement of mentors to me. You all agree that I know what is best for everyone. You won't do that. Nor would I even accept such a thing. Because unlike most of you, I understand that I am not God's gift to FFXIV.

So the best thing to do is leave it go. The system works. Its irritating to see mentors stand in fire. Its irritating to see them do other derpy stuff. But there are some who actually use the role properly. And those that do should be applauded. Hell reward the ones that do. Many of you are in Free Companies that do raffles and other silly things. Put some of those resources into rewarding mentors. You know, emergent gameplay, the reason many of us play these MMOs.

Newbies aren't fragile little flowers. They know when a mentor sucks. They understand they got their crown because of fulfilling an achievement. They can see the bad from the good. They understand the good ones are to be followed. But at the end of the day, they make the choice to follow or not follow someone. We don't make that choice for them. That is another thing some of you cannot seem to understand.

[CazzT]

Some of us wear the Crown for its actual purpose: To help and mentor others. It's frustrating that so many only go for it to get an extra roulette (which i still haven't even unlocked for myself) and then give the rest of us a bad name.

Everyone has this idea that the mentor should be regulated. That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. First who decides what is right and what is wrong? Would you all be comfortable with -Me- deciding that? Oh of course not, you all have your own ideas.

SE would be the one to decide on this criteria. I thought this was pretty obvious. The description of the Mentor that's already in the game is pretty clear that it's intended for the purposes of guiding sprouts and being helpful and not being an ass. It wouldn't take much to expand on this and have an official set of rules/policies for Mentors to abide by. Why would you think the community is asking to be the judges of this when most people asking for regulations are asking this of SE?

But what God given right makes your ideas better than mine?

o.0

You don't have that right, your ideal mentor isn't better than mine.

Which is why it would be up to SE.

Next is the logistical standpoint. You now have people getting whiny because someone did a bad thing, maybe not even an actual thing, maybe they did everything they were supposed to and someone decided to be a dweeb and report them anyway. You all do make a ton of frivolous reports.

This is likely the biggest reason SE does not make an official set of rules for Mentor status. There's too many vengeful internet tough kiddies that would submit a report because a Mentor tried to help and they got offended about someone trying to help them. Among other asinine things.

Would I like to see something more official? Absolutely! I don't expect it, though, because SE isn't going to waste money to staff enough people to deal with the whiny brats who got their feefees hurt because a Mentor was legit trying to help and was being nice about it.

[Jimmymagic]

"I'm sorry, Tim. You can't be in our party. You solo'd the boss. We can't have someone in the party as good as you are - even if you are the tank. A WARRIOR SHOULD REQUIRE HEALING DAMMIT!"

Wut?? Please....so just aim for step up from mediocre....Nice !!