New DRK is awful. Here’s why and what could be done about it.

[RatCopter]

Point of note, syphon only gave that much mp in grit. It does half that without, and most of these discussions are focused around optimal play.

0.5 is still bigger than 0.2

[Izsha]

Didnt say it wasnt. Just correcting a wrong number.

[Satarn]

Flexible? Where? You have to spend MP/blood before it overcaps and you want to spend it in buff windows. Where is the difference between ShB and SB?

Ressource managemant is still there. And it's still the same principle. Spend MP/blood before it overcaps, but save the majority for buff windows and TBN.

The problem is that the MP gain is so slow that you won't be overcapping outside of the burst windows.
As for being more flexible - think about it like working with a lot of smaller chunks(SB DRK) and a few big chunks(SHB DRK) - the first option gives you more freedom as to how to distribute them and pool them into different parts of the fight/raid buffs depending on situation. With how little we get in SHB, everything can and therefore has to be crammed into the same little space, because that small space will give you most potency from raid buffs.

Also the way new TBN works, rather than giving you blood it gives one free use of EoS and you can't hold more than one, so optimally if you want to(and you should) pool all the EoS uses into your burst, you are limited to only one TBN during the 50 second downtimes.

The Huton analogy is garbo tbh. For one simply lowering SkS is not the same as removing ogcds. That'd be more akin to removing mudras or ninki from NIN, not Huton.
Another thing is that we don't just press ogcds less often now - we press them all in the small window once every minute and then don't press any during downtime. This is one of the big issues people had with SB MCH btw, the literal least played job of the expansion. You had to cram all of your ogcds into a 10 second WF once every minute and then press 123 for the rest of the rotation which made it frustratingly ping dependent in burst and horribly boring in downtime.

[ReiMakoto]

The problem is that the MP gain is so slow that you won't be overcapping outside of the burst windows.
As for being more flexible - think about it like working with a lot of smaller chunks(SB DRK) and a few big chunks(SHB DRK) - the first option gives you more freedom as to how to distribute them and pool them into different parts of the fight/raid buffs depending on situation. With how little we get in SHB, everything can and therefore has to be crammed into the same little space, because that small space will give you most potency from raid buffs.

Also the way new TBN works, rather than giving you blood it gives one free use of EoS and you can't hold more than one, so optimally if you want to(and you should) pool all the EoS uses into your burst, you are limited to only one TBN during the 50 second downtimes.

The Huton analogy is garbo tbh. For one simply lowering SkS is not the same as removing ogcds. That'd be more akin to removing mudras or ninki from NIN, not Huton.
Another thing is that we don't just press ogcds less often now - we press them all in the small window once every minute and then don't press any during downtime. This is one of the big issues people had with SB MCH btw, the literal least played job of the expansion. You had to cram all of your ogcds into a 10 second WF once every minute and then press 123 for the rest of the rotation which made it frustratingly ping dependent in burst and horribly boring in downtime.

Adding to this, if you wanted to cram as much into a burst window as you could in 4.x you had to deliberatly choose to do more or less dark arts/ tbn to make sure your mana and blood gauge was exactly where it needed to be, and because resources were so abundant that actually was a decision. In 5.x your biggest burst just comes at pressing a delrium button, and your mana costs are so high and your mana generation is so low its not a decision to do a good burst window, its literally just keep darkside up then just pool everything for the 1 min mark.

[Satarn]

Adding to this, if you wanted to cram as much into a burst window as you could in 4.x you had to deliberatly choose to do more or less dark arts/ tbn to make sure your mana and blood gauge was exactly where it needed to be, and because resources were so abundant that actually was a decision. In 5.x your biggest burst just comes at pressing a delrium button, and your mana costs are so high and your mana generation is so low its not a decision to do a good burst window, its literally just keep darkside up then just pool everything for the 1 min mark.

Not even "keep darkside up" because using EoS twice during burst maxes your timer at 60 seconds, so you don't have to worry about it until your next burst. It legit might as well just be a toggle aura again. If the buff was only extended by a lower potency FoS like I suggested, then you'd actually have to keep an eye on that and deliberately refresh every 30 seconds.

[Danelo]

Based on all the info out there I totally agree about mp being a problem. DRK is going to be a MP chugger without the tools to regain it back for any flexibility whatsoever and also making it more of a 1-2-3 hero.. SE is gonna have to create some synergy between the kit to address this... I dunno, maybe:

Bloodspiller:
Reduces the recast timer for blood weapon by 5 seconds.

I would rather this than mp potency buffs to the 1-2-3 combo so there is some synergy in the kit. Right now there seems to be none. Besides the opening salvo it looks like you'll never be able to get to as good of a burst as the initial opener because mp gain isn't high enough. No flexibility built into the job. If the job is based on resource management and you don't want it to play like a drone then you've got to adequate resource spenders and builders for both blood and mp. The job looks like it's going to lack on the mp building skills in a major way at launch if everything that is out there stays the same.

Most of the current tanks seem to be only held back by their ability timers. It is an extra hurdle to not only make the timer an obstacle but also the resources to use those abilities. Resource generators need to be up to the task if that's going to be a requirement.

[shao32]

Bloodspiller:
Reduces the recast timer for blood weapon by 5 seconds.

while i agree that DRK need more resource generation to being more faster i don't consider adding another WAR mechanic will help, DRK need more unique stuff not stuff that already exist from the axe boy.

[Danelo]

Fair critique. Although, it's a for sure thing they could fix since, like you mentioned, they've already done it before. I'd rather extra mp generation not be tact onto the SE combo. Almost anything besides that.

I'm almost 100% sure if we don't give measured feedback and solutions then SE will be completely shutdown and decide to do nothing. Besides that I'm quite sure SE has doubled down on burst Windows so we are more than likely going to have some unga bunga no matter what. I'm not hopeful for rework 2.0 as it seems most want (and so do I). But even if SE did decide to rework, it doesn't seem like they have a clear and coherent idea of what they want DRK to be.

[shao32]

Indeed but at the same time we have pretty clear feedback, we want our speed back, many DRK hate new delirium, lack of combos and lack of sinergy between our skills/gauge/MP. Many ask for a closer HW version, doesn't mean bring back HW but design the job around by vote the best version by far of DRK, in other words make DRK feel like the old days and work around that.

Feedback it's hard to make when they just rip everything the job has and we have so little stuff to work around it but it's not like we didn't give them proper feedback in the past, in fact lyth and chrono threads that get tons of likes in SB address every DRK problem with suggestions to make the job as we love more solid and fun to us, but what we can do if even giving them proper feedback and clear directions of the job ends with this mess?.

[gman1311]

but what we can do if even giving them proper feedback and clear directions of the job ends with this mess?.

Just Unga bunga, nothing more, nothing less.