The Warrior of Light is not tempered by Hydaelyn.

[Neophyte]

If we are tempered why even tell us the big info about H./Z. being Primals? It's not like we could do anything about it, e.g. fight both of them, if we are actually tempered.

Why would Elidibus say "If you'd know the truth we would be on the same side." if it's more like "Even if you know the truth, your will is enslaved anyway."

Elidibus would look pretty dumb, if for all this time he was trying to 'persuade'/'influence' a mind-controlled being.
Why talk with us so much, if we can't turn our back to Hydalien anyway and are forced to serve her?

I mean... nobody talks to and tries to convince tempered ones.

[Iscah]

Why would Elidibus say "If you'd know the truth we would be on the same side." if it's more like "Even if you know the truth, your will is enslaved anyway."

He never specifically said we'd be on the same side.

He said we'd be "of one mind".

Exact words are important, and there's more than one way to take that sentence - especially in the light of Rejoinings and "calling on the true power of the Echo" to literally merge two Ascians into one.

If it was merely a matter of understanding each other, you'd think he would be a little more eager to explain things right now, rather than murder us.

[Neophyte]

He never specifically said we'd be on the same side.

He said we'd be "of one mind".

Exact words are important, and there's more than one way to take that sentence - especially in the light of Rejoinings and "calling on the true power of the Echo" to literally merge two Ascians into one.

If it was merely a matter of understanding each other, you'd think he would be a little more eager to explain things right now, rather than murder us.

Was this at the same time when he said that mastering the Echo would end the strife between Scions and the Ascians? I need to rewatch the cutscenes.

Aaaaaanyway.. it doesn't matter what he exactly said, bcs my argument is that 'anything' he would tell us is pointless, if we're really tempered, because he can't change our minds or more precisly:

He couldn't sow the seed of doubt.
And isn't that the point of all his talk?

To influence our actions and our relationship to Hydalin (which he couldn't if we're tempered)?
If we're tempered... then Elidibus semms just like someone who loves to hear himself talk?

[Iscah]

We don't know how the Echo works.

We may not be tempered.

Or tempering may not mean what we think it does.

We don't have all the information we need to declare it with certainty one way or the other.

Though I am far more confident to say we shouldn't trust Elidibus beyond his exact words. ('The Gifted" cutscene #2 is his conversation with Minfilia. "[If you mastered the Echo], there would be no strife between our peoples--for we would be of one mind." A pity he doesn't seem inclined to actually explain that statement to us, his apparently potential allies.)

[Hezzlocks]

I think the only thing we can be certain of right now is that we are not tempered. There is far too much that would make no sense if we were. This is why I lean towards the theory that Hydaelin and Zodiark are primals, just not in the sense that we understand.

They are called the first and most powerful of the primals. It stands to reason that they are not generic run of the mill primals. There is very likely something very different about them that we do not yet know.

I mean, if the big bombshell of the expansion was that they're primals, they wouldn't go announcing it in a trailer before the game even launched. There's more to this, no doubt about it. We can have fun speculating, but no one actually knows whats right. We need to wait and see where they're going with this.

Oh and one other thing. Just because they're primals, doesn't mean they're evil. A primal isn't necessarily good or evil, they're different from primal to primal, based on their personalities. Garuda is clearly an evil witch set about to rule or destroy everything, while Ramuh just wants to protect the Silphs and their home. Bismark appears to simply be a whale minding its own business and eating islands to survive, while Ravana is a noble and honorable warrior who revels in a good fight and wants to help his Gnath.

Point is, Hydaelyn being a primal doesn't automatically make her evil. She has skeletons in the closet for sure but she still wants to protect her children, much like Ramuh with the Silphs. In fact, her not being evil could very well be why she doesn't temper people.

[Iscah]

I should add that I'm not arguing that Hydaelyn is evil. I'm firmly in the opposite camp. But for all we can know right now, that has nothing to do with whether She is a primal and whether the Echo and/or Blessing may be a form of tempering that we have not been made aware of so far.

I'm just not making assumptions in any direction right mow.


Belated edit: I'm not even really supporting the idea that it's tempering. But it's now a question-mark where I previously would have said "surely not".... but then I've been saying that regarding alternate versions of individual characters too, and then a recent interview indicated we'll be seeing some. (And I wish we weren't.)

[Anonymoose]

I think we know enough to be relatively confident that the Echo is primarily a jailbreaking of the soul. From Lahabrea to the Chronicles of Light, the effects are described as "bringing down the walls of the self." It allows us to transcend emotion, subjectivity, mortal limits, and the flesh. When our soul resonates with another through that thinned membrane, we can divine their intent, decrypt their speech, and view their memory. Everyone reacts to this thinned membrane in a different way and it "manifests" in a unique manner, but all manifestations have followed that rule. Even Fordola's "mild precognition" is explained away as her being able to read her opponent's intent and the movement of aether in the air around them. No one's ever had a unique manifestation of the Echo that's just, like, "shapeshift into a lime."

I've seen little cause to assume the Echo is the ADDITION of anything but a status, and that status SUBTRACTS limitations placed on Hyadelyn's Children.

[Joven]

If it was merely a matter of understanding each other, you'd think he would be a little more eager to explain things right now, rather than murder us.

Maybe he can only communicate through attempted murder, like how fighters communicate through their fists.

[Cilia]

I've never been of the mind the Warrior of Light is tempered per sé - more like whatever a primal does to a mortal soul to enthrall them Hydaelyn did as well, but she didn't instill any compulsory worship the same way (other?) primals do and left the Warrior of Light's free will intact.

(Though that doesn't really hold up since it's the Echo that prevents tempering, not the Blessing of Light... but whatever.)

[Floortank]

I've never been of the mind the Warrior of Light is tempered per sé - more like whatever a primal does to a mortal soul to enthrall them Hydaelyn did as well, but she didn't instill any compulsory worship the same way (other?) primals do and left the Warrior of Light's free will intact.

(Though that doesn't really hold up since it's the Echo that prevents tempering, not the Blessing of Light... but whatever.)

Arenvald has the Echo, but not the Blessing of Light. The Ascians also have the Echo, and certainly don't have the Blessing of Light. The Echo prevents tempering. None of these characters are the Warrior of Light. None of them can be tempered because they have the Echo.