We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Kabooa]

You could also do "Afflatus Heal -> Upgraded instas-cast DPS basics mininukes and feed blood lilly -> x3 -> Afflatus Misery Big Nuke."

I actually like the idea behind the new lilly system. Find best place to drop the GCD heal, get big damage later. I just wish it was more involved than 1 payoff per 90 seconds, and that it was actually a net gain over stone spam instead of a partial refund.

I definitely should not have said 'the only way'. Some spell interaction is sorely needed among all casters, and having a potential feedback loop of spell empowerment between regular spells and Afflatus spells could serve as a solid conceptual foundation, though it may be too late to see that come at all.

[Shurrikhan]

I definitely should not have said 'the only way'. Some spell interaction is sorely needed among all casters, and having a potential feedback loop of spell empowerment between regular spells and Afflatus spells could serve as a solid conceptual foundation, though it may be too late to see that come at all.

Empowerment? Outside of former Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition? What, do you want healers to be... DPS now? With their fancy smancy rotations and priorities and synergies and junk?

...I, too, would have preferred that, yes.

[Atlantasia]

I'm not saying you're lying, but I am saying you don't have proof. Some have made the same claim you have, but when empirical evidence is available, it's shown otherwise.

And that's partially where I'm having issues here. Why do some (not you specifically) of you exaggerate your own performance? Does admitting that you do use a GCD to heal make you less of a player?

Using specifically the Afflatus skill line, the only thing that could improve it is giving it a weaker-than-Glare single target "Black Lily" version, but even if that were not given, there's still plenty of areas where GCD healing occurs that you could utilize Afflatus spells and not "lose damage" because you needed to GCD heal anyways.

Here's the deal on GCD healing for me personally on WHM, when I have my best parses, the 95+% ones, when you dig deeper on the healing, the top two GCD heals are usually regen, which I use for single target healing while moving, and Medica II, which I use with SC while moving. On my 98% DPS parse on Os3, every other GCD heal is used 4 or less times during the entire fight and more healing on my part was not needed. Regens + oGCD healing took care of the majority of the healing required by me there.

I know you're addressing someone else, but I thought an example would be helpful. I barely use Cure II and Medica in optimal play in raids.

[Kabooa]

I know you're addressing someone else, but I thought an example would be helpful. I barely use Cure II and Medica in optimal play in raids.

I appreciate it.

Currently, Misery is being looked at as a loss. However, do consider that during raids there are periods of downtime. I have no doubt you can waste black lillies here if you truly have no other avenue.

But on more realistic notes, not everyone is always at optimal play. Mistakes happen, and therefore patching up is needed. There are OGCDs, and while some can certainly be used here, you cannot always spare it, thus a GCD heal may be required. What Misery does is turn required GCD healing into a gain. I'm sure you can review your own play and see areas where you could utilize them.

That isn't to say it can't be better. In the discussion thread, I pointed out that I think you could add in a weaker instant cast Damage spell as an option that would nicely round out the Afflatus kit, though more can be done with it.

[Yuyuka3]

I appreciate it.

Currently, Misery is being looked at as a loss. However, do consider that during raids there are periods of downtime. I have no doubt you can waste black lillies here if you truly have no other avenue.

But on more realistic notes, not everyone is always at optimal play. Mistakes happen, and therefore patching up is needed. There are OGCDs, and while some can certainly be used here, you cannot always spare it, thus a GCD heal may be required. What Misery does is turn required GCD healing into a gain. I'm sure you can review your own play and see areas where you could utilize them.

That isn't to say it can't be better. In the discussion thread, I pointed out that I think you could add in a weaker instant cast Damage spell as an option that would nicely round out the Afflatus kit, though more can be done with it.

Wasting resources is sub-optimal play. Also, WHM already generates more than enough overheal already thanks to, for example, Assize spam and regens, no need to add even more just to waste the damned Lilies. Unfortunately,you are probably right that this might be the way to go about it, provided that they even spawn the Blood Lily if you overheal with them. The Lilies we have now don't appear when you overheal. I also agree with Atlantasia, my most used GCD heals are Regen and Medica II, and none of those are replacable with the Afflatus-heals since they function differently.
Even if you consider sub-optimal play of the party, unless several people f*ck up together, you are still unlikely to cast 3 GCD heals in 90 seconds. Yes, I had such parties, they were no fun and usually don't get very far since they are normally also lacking in other areas (like damage; people dying left and right is a huge DPS loss for the party), so why even count them? And let's not forget here that people f*cking up very often means people dying; at which point your precious Afflatus skills are absolutely worthlesss, they cannot bring them back on their feet unless I severely misunderstood them, which I doubt.

So, let's say I do use an Afflatus spell to iron out the occasional mishap. Unless that happens 3 times in 90 seconds, you will be sitting on Lilies just as you are now, and you won't use Misery all that often, either. The Lily system is better than before, yes, but it is nowhere near mindblowingly good or super useful, as you seem to think.

[Ceasaria]

I also agree with Atlantasia, my most used GCD heals are Regen and Medica II, and none of those are replacable with the Afflatus-heals since they function differently.

They are if your co-healer can adjust from his side without loosing anything. And, we know SCH and AST (less) have more tools now, so this may happen.
And if you do it every 30 sec, you will not loose any Divine Benison.

[ty_taurus]

I appreciate it.

Currently, Misery is being looked at as a loss. However, do consider that during raids there are periods of downtime. I have no doubt you can waste black lillies here if you truly have no other avenue.

But on more realistic notes, not everyone is always at optimal play. Mistakes happen, and therefore patching up is needed. There are OGCDs, and while some can certainly be used here, you cannot always spare it, thus a GCD heal may be required. What Misery does is turn required GCD healing into a gain. I'm sure you can review your own play and see areas where you could utilize them.

That isn't to say it can't be better. In the discussion thread, I pointed out that I think you could add in a weaker instant cast Damage spell as an option that would nicely round out the Afflatus kit, though more can be done with it.

I feel like I'm missing something, because wouldn't Afflatus Rapture (AoE) have more frequent opportunities than we're bringing up? It's instant cast and it's free.

From what we've seen from the media tour, there was more frequent AoE damage to the party in the dungeon and in the Titania fight than we've seen in Stormblood. Plenary now has the benefit of not relying on Medica/Medica II to be used, but will it be enough along with Medica II ticks to keep the party alive and healthy?

Afflatus Solace I can understand because you really don't need Cure/Cure II if you're managing your oGCDs, but even now, I need a Medica once in a while.

[Kabooa]

I feel like I'm missing something, because wouldn't Afflatus Rapture (AoE) have more frequent opportunities than we're bringing up? It's instant cast and it's free.

From what we've seen from the media tour, there was more frequent AoE damage to the party in the dungeon and in the Titania fight than we've seen in Stormblood. Plenary now has the benefit of not relying on Medica/Medica II to be used, but will it be enough along with Medica II ticks to keep the party alive and healthy?



Afflatus Solace I can understand because you really don't need Cure/Cure II if you're managing your oGCDs, but even now, I need a Medica once in a while.

While that tends to be the case, whether you need AffMedica or AffCure itself is irrelevant. If you're using either, you needed the GCD heal. To say it is a loss of DPS ignores that you weren't going to use an attack spell anyways.

And you only need it once every 90 seconds to break even.

So, let's say I do use an Afflatus spell to iron out the occasional mishap. Unless that happens 3 times in 90 seconds, you will be sitting on Lilies just as you are now, and you won't use Misery all that often, either. The Lily system is better than before, yes, but it is nowhere near mindblowingly good or super useful, as you seem to think.

If at least one GCD was required, then the remaining two you can 'make the choice' between dealing damage, or topping someone off with Afflatus rather than an ability.

Math incoming.

Currently, if you only use the lilies to generate a blood lily, doing so when you could cast Glare at current potency is a net loss of 75 per spell cast. This is because the healing is not required so you are literally just using them to generate a lily.

However, this changes, if at least one of those casts was needed. This instead means that in addition to utilizing a GCD heal you required, you also put away 225 bonus attack potency in your pocket to cash in. "Wasting" the lilies beyond this point to generate a blood lily means a total of 3 GCDs at -75. In other words, your net loss is 0.

In any scenario where a GCD heal is required, Afflatus isn't a 'loss of damage' but a gain. Regen might be more effective, but Regen is still a net loss of 300. Regen is only 50% more effective, yet a loss of 300% more damage than Afflatus Cure.

When you factor in potential raid boosts, Adds, any dual boss fights, high mobility segments with damage intake, and inherent traits of instant cast spells, Afflatus isn't perfect, but it's perfectly usable. It still has room for improvement. I've said as much, I agree with that.

Please note that in encounters where GCD healing isn't required, then you and others are right to ignore it.

[DiznypKC]

I'm not saying you're lying, but I am saying you don't have proof. Some have made the same claim you have, but when empirical evidence is available, it's shown otherwise.

And that's partially where I'm having issues here. Why do some (not you specifically) of you exaggerate your own performance? Does admitting that you do use a GCD to heal make you less of a player?

Using specifically the Afflatus skill line, the only thing that could improve it is giving it a weaker-than-Glare single target "Black Lily" version, but even if that were not given, there's still plenty of areas where GCD healing occurs that you could utilize Afflatus spells and not "lose damage" because you needed to GCD heal anyways.

You could also log on and try it yourself.

I ran with a level 70 Dragoon, 63 Bard, and 50 Warrior. So only three of us were level synced.

Also, the lack of healing had nothing to do with my “performance” as a healer. There was literally not enough damage in the encounter design to warrant any healing.

I don’t need to prove that to you when you could literally go into the game and see it yourself.

[Kabooa]

You could also log on and try it yourself.

I ran with a level 70 Dragoon, 63 Bard, and 50 Warrior. So only three of us were level synced.

Also, the lack of healing had nothing to do with my “performance” as a healer. There was literally not enough damage in the encounter design to warrant any healing.

I don’t need to prove that to you when you could literally go into the game and see it yourself.

Sure. There are encounters that are light on healing. But how about the ones that are heavier on it?

Should we ignore those?

Edit: Forgive this, but I have other forums I want to discuss things in, so you're only getting this one, lest I hit my daily limit.

That’s not what we’re discussing.

The whole debate is centered around healer downtime, so fights that are more heal intensive do not apply. Even if they did, they are a minority of the content we have available to us right now.

So, yeah, can you give a logical explanation as to why we’re given more healing spells again when so much of our content is light on requires healing?

The same reason tanks have mitigation cooldowns despite not needing them for the majority of content.

Just because it isn't used in -ALL- content doesn't mean it isn't useful in some.

This is also a matter that addresses a more subtle part of the damage / healing dichotomy, and that's decision making. By attaching Misery to healing GCD use, it means your big pay off wtf White Mage foul has inherent opportunity cost, and finding those areas where you can minimize that cost to maximize your gain becomes a facet of your gameflow.

Wasting your lilies to heal something that isn't there means Misery is, at worst, "Not worth it". Utilizing your Lilies, recognizing when you cannot OGCD or when you shouldn't, when you should Regen vs "Cure 2" as a spot heal, or a maintenance heal, leads to a bigger pay off. As an earlier poster mentioned, you're more likely to use Medica over Cure 2, primarily because Assize is usually not used to respond to damage intake, Cure 3 isn't useful in spread scenarios, and medica 2 shouldn't be spammed.

Also, my previous math was a little off in a prior post, primarily because Regen's potency may have changed.

Using the tooltips we have (which are not final but no reason not to use them), Regen is a 1200 potency heal over 18 seconds while AffCure is 700 / GCD.

We can extrapolate this out with 2 Regens being worth more than 3 AffCures.

So long as there is no overhealing on either, this means 2 Regens have a potency loss of 300 over 3 gcds. (2 Glares lost, 1 Glare gained) compared to 3 AffCures being a potency gain of 675 (Each Misery is 900 potency over 4 gcds, or 225. Using Afflatus to heal instead of another GCD means you bank +225 potency to cash in when Misery is finally used).

If there is zero healing, then every AffHeal is -75 potency (225 banked potency - 300 Glare) because that's a glare you should have used instead.

So, sure. Some encounters you never use a GCD heal. But I'd reckon in most you're still using regen.