Scholar notes from E3 build - Titania Fight

[PaulH]

We'll agree to disagree about that being denying you a voice; I see that more as questioning a double standard that seems to be prevalent here, in that dps and tanks are (much like healers) speculating what their rotations will be based on given tooltips. Entire rotations for several jobs have already been mathed out, and yes there is already some suggested changes; Nemekh, for example, already pointed out some serious problems if SMN were to be released in its pre-Alpha state; Red Mages know what they will and will not be getting in the final build of the game as well, and this has caused some to mourn the loss of abilities they wished they could have kept. These examples are both of people looking at tooltips we have available to us, and giving feedback based on knowledge of what the changes themselves mean even if we haven't been able to play the jobs at 80 yet.

We have practically full data at 80. Potencies are subject to change, but they're not going to overhaul abilities between an alpha build and final release. They won't suddenly add back in SCH's dots (as an example), and if they do I'll be colored very surprised and myself cede on that point. People have a very good guess at what the game will look like at 80 based on the tooltips we've been given; this is through combination of tooltips and experience at the game as it currently exists.

Tooltips aren't suggestions of what the ability could be. They're point-blank descriptions of what abilities are.

I agreed about the voice thing anyway as per my last post. I only healer main so the Tank/DPS stuff is lost on me tbh.

Reading this i concede to your points.... It will be poop.


I snipped this from Yuyuka3 and my faith in the devs and how I formed my opinion is null and void. It will be crap, happy days... time to play RDM.

How many healer mains did attend that media tour? 0. How many questions were asked about healers? 3 out of 92. So people who got no effing clue of healers were contented? Oh, yes, we should totally take that at face value, let's pack up guys, he showed us how it is!
Also, it is far, far, FAR TOO LATE one month after launch because they cannot reasonably reverse all the idiotic stuff they did after release, so they have to be told NOW. You guys in the "wait and see"-crowd must be truly blind and deaf to still think this way after everything that happened the two previous expansion launches.

[PaulH]

Mr. Pot, I would sadly have to inform you that you are black, too. I'm not telling you to stop talking until level 80. I'm telling you to spread your message to the tanks and DPS forums because otherwise you are subjecting us to a double standard. A substandard. That our opinions from the same sources of information do not matter. A feeling that many of us feel that the dev team is supressing us with as it is. So please, go. Tell the Tank forums to stop speculating until 80. Tell the DPS to stop discussing their changes until they are 80. By all means spread your message to everyone who will listen. But if you're not going to tell them to wait in silence, do not do so to us.

I dont play tanks/dps but i agree with you now. oh well.

[Yuyuka3]

I agreed about the voice thing anyway as per my last post. I only healer main so the Tank/DPS stuff is lost on me tbh.

Reading this i concede to your points.... It will be poop.


I snipped this from Yuyuka3 and my faith in the devs and how I formed my opinion is null and void. It will be crap, happy days... time to play RDM.

How many healer mains did attend that media tour? 0. How many questions were asked about healers? 3 out of 92. So people who got no effing clue of healers were contented? Oh, yes, we should totally take that at face value, let's pack up guys, he showed us how it is!
Also, it is far, far, FAR TOO LATE one month after launch because they cannot reasonably reverse all the idiotic stuff they did after release, so they have to be told NOW. You guys in the "wait and see"-crowd must be truly blind and deaf to still think this way after everything that happened the two previous expansion launches.

You are only trolling now, are you?

[PaulH]

You are only trolling now, are you?

If i hit that reply thread once more it keeps wiping what I type!!

No I am not trolling, sorry to all about my opinion in this thread it was wrong and flawed and I recognise it. Sorry just a human and passionate and not always right.

I had hoped the devs, testers etc had balanced the healers in the new content and why I was beating the drum of wait till 80 dungeons, primals etc as we would've been tuned up and we would be proper busy healing etc. It was a false hope. I am a healer and play all three but Scholar has my heart and after SB I had hoped that things would be ok. Your statement Yuyuka3 in the other thread just woke me up to my own naivety and silly thoughts. I haven't forgiven the devs since they changed our lustrate in ARR and meh more of the same.

[MintnHoney]

*something*

That doesn't mean that content prior to level 80 is not able to be simulated with the data presented. Currently, I don't see the data, as presented, providing meaningful fun, in terms of gameplay, prior to 80. This is still a relevant issue, as level-sync will still be happening for dungeon crawls, possibly some raids, and who knows what else. Even if pre-80 content would somehow not remain relevant, and especially if the healer role suddenly becomes fun at level 80, why is it that healers need to wait until level 80 to have fun?

[PaulH]

That doesn't mean that content prior to level 80 is not able to be simulated with the data presented. Currently, I don't see the data, as presented, providing meaningful fun, in terms of gameplay, prior to 80. This is still a relevant issue, as level-sync will still be happening for dungeon crawls, possibly some raids, and who knows what else. Even if pre-80 content would somehow not remain relevant, and especially if the healer role suddenly becomes fun at level 80, why is it that healers need to wait until level 80 to have fun?

indeed and very good points about level sync. Lesson learn't I should read more before making an opinion or stand.

[PaulH]

That doesn't mean that content prior to level 80 is not able to be simulated with the data presented. Currently, I don't see the data, as presented, providing meaningful fun, in terms of gameplay, prior to 80. This is still a relevant issue, as level-sync will still be happening for dungeon crawls, possibly some raids, and who knows what else. Even if pre-80 content would somehow not remain relevant, and especially if the healer role suddenly becomes fun at level 80, why is it that healers need to wait until level 80 to have fun?

You are right there. I think my mentality is level a tank to 80 to get through content as I play with a wh. I then burn through healer levelling and my healer switches to dps and that is how we play as we have a variety of classes between us as options but maybe not needed with trust systems.. So I didnt consider the journey of levelling a healer as i just rush for the destination of 80.

[nalol]

2: Let's not pretend that SCH isn't broken in Stormblood. They completely deserve nerfs.

it's not "nerf" .. a nerf is indom having 400pot instead of 500

a nerf is decreasng broil II damage


here it's a loss of abilities. You always have to think that the more gear we get, the more trivial fights become and healers need to have something to do if they don't need to heal.

a dps always have a rotation, stacks to keep, resources to manage to dps more and the fun can be to increase dps as much as possible. while avoiding stuff. perfecting the rotation.

that's why AST are fun .. coz even if they have no dps rotation, they have lots of macro management that makes u busy. all the cards, spread, royal road or crowns .. a lot of decisions on top of healing. So they don't need a complex dps rotation, coz their complexity comes in their buffs. So even if they don't need to heal as much ... they always have lots of micro management.

SCH and WHM don't have that. That's why I find WHM boring .. it's because once udon't need to focus on healing, their dps "rotation" is boring and their lillies are just as boring.

SCH has a bit more dps management, with the dots, bane, ED, the stack .. it made it fun, coz same ... the healing isn't complex, what is complex is keeping the stacks, managing them and managing your dps.


in shb ... we lose a lot of that. and we don't have the micro management an AST has. So yeah sure .. first instances, we'll have to heal a bit more, so we'll be busy. but at some point, if there's not even a bit of depth into the healer's dps rotation .. then playing healer is boring.

because u don't have heal checks at every corner.

and let's face it .. playing dps at low lvl is boring. well healer (if heals are not needed) will be just as boring 1 spell spam. And that's the biggest issue for me. For "pure" healers ... it won't change a thing in SB or SHB ...

[Mortex]

I'm legitimately getting worried that, with a proper tight DPS check, it's going to be healers getting blamed for failing even if no one dies. Maybe I just have a bad opinion of the general population at times.

I mean the trust healer bots even deal dmg so should tell you what square thinks about that

[Crushnight]

Your options being gutted doesn't mean your damage is gutted. Biolysis does 50 more potency than Miasma 2 and Bio 2 combined. Broil 3 obviously does more damage than Broil 2. Having to maintain 2 dots over one isn't any harder or more complex -- healer DPS kit isnt, and likely never will be, complex. The complexity of playing a healer at high level is mapping out your heals to allow you to Broil/Stone/Malefic spam more. That aspect of the game hasn't changed.

I'd like to just dispel this little myth that having 2 dots isn't more complex than having 1 that does the same/more than the 2.

2 dots = 2 gcds
1 dot = 1 gcd

Now can you see where the complexity might be, it is of course in the fact you have to use 2 gcds with no healing needed between them rather than 1 its minor but it does add more complexity, you also have to weigh up each dot with the basic dmg skill to see if worth applying at that time, more dots more to weigh up and again its minor but it does add complexity.

healer dps rotations do not need to be dps or tank levels but not having something that keeps you engaged better than 2,1,1,1,1,1,1 etc is going to make leveling boring especially any solo instances as healer