We are in need of a official response to the healer situation

[Manuka]

What do you want from the healer role? What do you consider an "un-clunked" kit?

Not them but for me, if they genuinely go against the last 6 years of their content design and make us heal more than 50% of the fight, creating interactive synergies between our skills would be a nice start; simple things like every third heal has increased potency or a CD that collapses active Hots to heal for w/e remaining potency or even converting x% of overhealing into a minor shield. Instead of the current design where they can all be boiled down to small heal, big heal, ogcd heal, gimmick heal, aoe heal, ogcd aoe heal, gimmick aoe heal, HoT, aoe HoT, HoT on the ground, 10% mitigation and a single target shield. Just add a dash of pretty animations and a few utility skills so people don't notice they are functionally the same healing jobs at their core. Granted they've always been like this in some form, which is why having a varied dps kit for sch's or interactive cards with ast and why people begged for whm to get something to break up the monotony of the healing design.

[Sebazy]

And here I thought people learned a lesson with Gordias and were shown how badly community's feedback could negatively impact something before it's even out. I guess I was wrong.

I'm a little bit late to the party here, but I thought I'd better chirp up and correct this snippet.

Gordias' immense difficulty spike was predominantly down to SE's QA team trying to save time by testing the encounter purely phase by phase. It's critical to be aware that not only was this with fresh cooldowns and full HP per phase, but for much of the testing period they also had various invuln buffs. It's been openly stated by Yoshida that the QA team never cleared A3S or A4S end to end.

The proof is in the pudding really. Whilst Yoshida claimed that the difficulty would be tuned back down somewhat for Midas, A6S ended up being significantly tougher than A2S. It's also not much of a stretch to suggest that A8S was mechanically a much more complex encounter than anything Gordias had, it just wasn't riddled with latency dependant mechanics and the DPS requirements were tuned to much more realistic levels.

TLDR: - The community's feedback was not to blame for Gordias' difficulty. Rather, the fault lay primarily at the hands of Yoshida's QA department.

https://www.4gamer.net/games/278/G027835/20151224179/ - One of the interviews where Yoshida talks about this.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests - And here's a translation.

To get back ontopic. The talk about the overall weakness of the design of healer gameplay is bang on point. Honestly, in my opinion it goes much deeper than just the nature of each healers toolkit. There have been some encounters over the years with enjoyable quirks and gimmicks that did well to alleviate the expectation of a healer to just sit there throwing rocks. A2S and A5S are probably the best examples of this.

[SaberMaxwell]

I fully believe the only real data comes from experiencing for oneself and ignoring outside input outside of a proceed with caution.

So are market analysts just time travellers from the future that just claim to use patterns in available data to make predictions of future outcomes?

[kidalutz]

So are market analysts just time travellers from the future that just claim to use patterns in available data to make predictions of future outcomes?

No they're guessing simple as that sometimes they're right sometimes they're very very wrong.

[SaberMaxwell]

No they're guessing simple as that sometimes they're right sometimes they're very very wrong.

They're right more often than you think. You only see when they're wrong because that's that kind of job.

As others have said though, go on denying the fundamentals of science. Whatever makes you happy.

[Yuyuka3]

You had me until that last part where they "make adjustments based on what they feel is necessary." Historically they've be perfectly happy to let broken things stay broken for a really long time.

Case in point, WHM. Been the worst healer for almost two expansions now, had half its kit destroyed in Stormblood without getting much in return, and we are now heading towards another 2 years of the same garbage with no end in sight.

No they're guessing simple as that sometimes they're right sometimes they're very very wrong.

The term you are looking for is educated guess. Which, as the name implies, is a guess based on facts and data. Nothing else is done here, since long-time players are very much able to read and predict SE's actions. Because, you know, they are pretty predictable since they never changed their patterns before, and all I've seen so far points in the direction that they still don't break with their patterns.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

To get back ontopic. The talk about the overall weakness of the design of healer gameplay is bang on point. Honestly, in my opinion it goes much deeper than just the nature of each healers toolkit. There have been some encounters over the years with enjoyable quirks and gimmicks that did well to alleviate the expectation of a healer to just sit there throwing rocks. A2S and A5S are probably the best examples of this.

Yeah, the healer having to man a different role in the fight, for a specific mechanic, can be quite entertaining. Even old stuff like ARR dungeons where the healer just kites adds while the DPS burn the boss can be diverting.

There are also specific healing situations, at the correct ilvl, that are pretty intense for brief periods. Odin and Thordan EX when they were new, A4S Nisi (so much so most people cheesed it lol), O4S Almagest, etc. The issue remains that these situations are a) rare and b) scripted such that once you figure out the fight it's not different than any other raid-wide.

No they're guessing simple as that sometimes they're right sometimes they're very very wrong.

I think you vastly underestimate the frequency with which models, for marketing or otherwise, can accurately predict the future.

It is wise to be skeptical of modelling work, I can attest from experience that some people just think you can plug whatever data into a model and it will magically produce results. Ex. there was a graduate student who wanted to model groundwater flow in a watershed for which we don't even have detailed stratigraphic and tectonic maps (in the Cascades, where there's gonna be a LOT of faults).

However, good modelling work (aka strong background of traditional research to build model and supply input data, valid assumptions, model is tested and compared to known data along the way) is reliable, better than nothing, and essentially little different from drawing a conclusion based on available data yourself (the computer just does a LOT of hard math for you).

There's a world of difference between making an informed prediction, based on pattern and evidence, and "guessing."

[Yuyuka3]

Yeah, the healer having to man a different role in the fight, for a specific mechanic, can be quite entertaining. Even old stuff like ARR dungeons where the healer just kites adds while the DP burn the boss can be diverting.

There are also specific healing situations, at the correct ilvl, that are pretty intense for brief periods. Odin and Thordan EX when they were new, A4S Nisi (so much so most people cheesed it lol), O4S Almagest, etc. The issue remains that these situations are a) rare and b) scripted such that once you figure out the fight it's not different than any other raid-wide.

I think you vastly underestimate the frequency with which models, for marketing or otherwise, can accurately predict the future.

It is wise to be skeptical of modelling work, I can attest from experience that some people just think you can plug whatever data into a model and it will magically produce results. However, good modelling work (aka strong background of traditional research to build model and supply input data, valid assumptions, model is tested and compared to known data along the way) is reliable, better than nothing, and essentially little different from drawing a conclusion based on available data yourself (the computer just does a LOT of hard math for you).

There's a world of difference between making an informed prediction, based on pattern and evidence, and "guessing."

As someone with a degree in natural sciences, I can only confirm your assessment about models. Models are based on observations and data gathered over a very long time span usually. Then, when the model is finished, it's tested against reality; you know that, say, this geological fault acts a certain way; does the model reproduce what you know? Yes? Good. The model is working as intended. No? Well, back to the programming stage you go, try figuring out what's wrong. The model is only completed when the calculated results coincide with reality. Making a good model is a pretty long work in progress.

[kidalutz]

They're right more often than you think. You only see when they're wrong because that's that kind of job.

As others have said though, go on denying the fundamentals of science. Whatever makes you happy.

and like I said if you arent going to be happy with healing do something else nobody is forcing you to play healer. You're complaining about reworks because your curves are higher than most others instead of thinking well it would be nice if all healers were able to keep the party alive and considering others that get stuck with terrible healers who only DPS and if they deign to notice toss out a heal. Nor are any of you considering that first and foremost you're playing a healer if keeping the party alive is too boring for you move onto another challenge DPSing without taking avoidable damage Tanking without taking avoidable damage speeding up your DPS rotations mastering each of your classes. SOmeone was compalining that the DPS check for something was too high because They the healer should be doing damage too. I'm sorry it dont work like that anymore Your new job is to keep the DPS and Tanks up. toss a dot in here and there.. What all of you are doing at this point is refusing to adapt or change.

[EaMett]

It would be a good metric, if the current Ultimates were designed in the context of SHB.

Just because it's called Ultimate does not mean it does not suffer from the same healing design issues as Savage.

What if you design content in such a way that dropping an OGCD or a Regen does not take care of the whole thing?

A few things:

- Ultimate requires roughly double the healing of Final omega and this is at lower ilvl synch. Keep that in mind. Everything else in the game requires less healing than final omega obviously so that's putting the bar high.
- Damage output in some phases are back to back and force GCDs. Even then you can optimize to hardly require any despite the intense checks. Shb toolkit will make this even easier.
- Shb will never require that much healing. Ever. (outside of ultimate of course)
- Even if it did, there's no effective damage spread that would keep us from optimizing via DPS. Short of perhaps putting absolutely all the damage into boss auto-attacks, or some strong constant party dot.. Maybe then we would have to chain spam. But obviously we know that's not happening, just from the mana management perspective.
- They've said things would be easy in a much clearer fashion than the elusive mention to higher healing requirements.

Yes we aren't 100% certain, but at this stage we're getting pretty darn close to knowing what to expect.

Besides like others have said. Your comment doesn't take into account the real gripes we have with the downtime toolkits. Which can't be fixed with content in the first place.