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  1. #1
    Player
    galbsadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    291
    Character
    Galbsadi Nailo
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by PyurBlue View Post
    Maybe. 50 isn't really that daunting. Black Mage doesn't learn very much between level 1 and 60. It's essentially Fire I all the way. Paladin has one combo and one AoE button. Balancing healing and DPS on healers is a little more challenging, but nothing a tutorial couldn't help with. As it is, I've frequently recommended that new players level in PoTD when they ask for advice on what class to play. Low level doesn't reflect high level play and some new players just don't find the slow pace of skill acquisition interesting.

    There might be some need for a level 1 option for players totally unfamiliar with a FF14 style game, but starting at level 50 isn't something that I consider putting novices in too deep.
    To an experienced player, maybe not.

    Black Mage at lv50 has a full rotation including shifting away from using Convert in favor of Ice3/Fire3 adjustments by that point, with Flare as a finisher. They also at that point have developed a full set of utility actions (some common to all casters, such as Manashift and Surecast, others specific to them, like Mana Ward).

    Paladin at lv50 has their full threat combo, half of their DPS combo, one DPS AoEs, two threat AoEs, several defensive cooldowns (some common to all tanks, such as Anticipation and Rampart, some specific to them, like Bulwark and Sentinel), an offensive cooldown, two stances to apply in different situations, two stuns (one common to all tanks), and a couple of situational abilities.

    Note, of course, that you chose to list just two classes as if everything is super-simple to a brand new player, so let's dig deeper:

    Dragoons have their basic rotations in play by this point, along with multiple jumps, various utility, etc.

    Monks have most of their rotations in play by this point, missing some oGCDs and Riddles.

    Ninjas have probably 90% of their lv70 rotations by this point.

    Scholars are missing some of their stronger heals (Indom, Excog, etc.), but are largely developed by this point.

    Summoners have basically a full rotation at this point, sans trance/Bahamut (which really just build on this rotation anyhow).

    Astrologians are pretty well developed at this level.

    Bards are well developed at this level.

    Dark Knights are well developed at this level.

    I'd go as far as to wager that your argument that it's simple at that level largely stems from the fact that either (a) you're forgetting that new players might not be used to the systems this all builds on at this point or (b) you haven't actually leveled every class to this point or higher.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    PyurBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    748
    Character
    Saphir Amariyo
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 40
    Quote Originally Posted by galbsadi View Post
    To an experienced player, maybe not.
    Those were actually some of the first classes I experienced in the game, so I'm speaking from a new player viewpoint. I am pulling things from memory so I might not be painting a completely accurate picture but I don't feel like my opinions are completely unfounded here.

    I think you also misinterpreted my post to mean that any player would be able to jump into the game at 50. That's not the case.

    Black Mage at lv50 has a full rotation including shifting away from using Convert in favor of Ice3/Fire3 adjustments by that point, with Flare as a finisher. They also at that point have developed a full set of utility actions (some common to all casters, such as Manashift and Surecast, others specific to them, like Mana Ward).
    There are more skill available than Fire 1 for sure, but most of those are pretty situational. For the most part you're pressing F1 over and over. When I was leveling it I had to consider if the class was what I really wanted to play until I was able to experience level 60. It took that long for managing the class and its resources to actually become interesting. Starting immediately at level 50 would present learning a curve compared to level 1, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I guess it depends on if you just want to pick up the class in full right away or want some complexity to play with.

    Paladin at lv50 has their full threat combo, half of their DPS combo, one DPS AoEs, two threat AoEs, several defensive cooldowns (some common to all tanks, such as Anticipation and Rampart, some specific to them, like Bulwark and Sentinel), an offensive cooldown, two stances to apply in different situations, two stuns (one common to all tanks), and a couple of situational abilities.
    The half DPS combo is useless because the aggro combo out DPS's it. All you can really do with Riot blade is build MP for flash. This didn't take me very long to figure out as a first time tank. Defensive cooldowns are pretty straight forward and I distinctly remember being super cautious when the only one I had was Rampart because with just 1 CD you can only maintain so much defensive uptime. If I had more options I might have been encouraged to use CD's more often as you're supposed to.

    other classes
    While some of these are harder to learn than other classes (I'd say Monk and Ninja specifically), FF14's leveling system isn't actually very good at teaching classes either. There are points where you need to unlearn habits that you've picked up previously. You mentioned one with Black Mage actually. Using the III spells to swap element instead of transpose. You don't even unlock both of the spells at the same time. Being giving a bunch of skills at once has its own challenges, but also provides advantages in that the skillset that you're learning is going to change less often.

    I'd go as far as to wager that your argument that it's simple at that level largely stems from the fact that either (a) you're forgetting that new players might not be used to the systems this all builds on at this point or (b) you haven't actually leveled every class to this point or higher.
    What I was specifically saying was that starting from 50 isn't necessarily beyond the ability of a new player (but it's not realistic for all new players) to cope with. I pointed out a couple of simple classes to support that and I also based my idea on my own new player experience and discussions with new players that I've encountered in the game.

    Whether or not it's simple would depend on what you consider simple. You can't pick up level 50 classes blind and jump into content, but you can get familiar with them pretty quickly with practice. That's not a negative for all new players and overbearing simplicity like the first 15 levels isn't a positive for all new players either.
    (0)