Revelations from the Shadowbringers E3 Trailer

[Rocl]

I suspect it relates to the fact that although Hydaelyn and Zodiark may be Primals, the crystals they each are linked to are not; they're pre-existing concentrations of aether, one dark, one light. For any of the other Primals to grant such a blessing could tax them too heavily since they have no innate source of aether. Dark and light appear to be the primordial forces in the setting.

This is an interesting point, and one I suspect we'll see clarified in the expansion. Ramuh muses that Light and Dark might've been given form when man was born—which also might be his explanation of the Sundering/the summoning of Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Ramuh could also be not knowing what he's talking about. That Light and Dark are primordial forces seems likely and I look forward to how the information is finally concretely presented to the adventurer. I'm not entirely sold on the Mother/Fathercrystals being independent of the manifestation of their primals (if this turns out to indeed be true) since both Bahamut and Alexander had a crystalline core and were particularly powerful Primals. That Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Primal beings strong enough to possess crystal core seems equally likely, just on a case heretofore unseen/documented.

Elidibus took great interest in the WoL due to his raw power, and I think a lot of it has taken them by surprise, including the permanent destruction of some amongst their own ranks, which was hitherto unprecedented. As formidable as the Garleans are, faced with a foe with such a potent Echo and the backing of the crystal of light, the Ascians may have resorted to sharing such knowledge to ensure the Empire does not collapse prematurely. Of course, Aulus may just be a prodigy and have stumbled on it by his own, however the similarities to the Ascian approach leads me to speculate that Emet-Selch may have been doing more than just "resting" all this time, and may have directed this project behind the scenes. After all, assuming that his great-grandson inherited his Overlord aether (which should be feasible given that most beings comprise of both aether and a physical body), removing the impediments posed by the Garlean genome may have been necessary to ensure these traits could be expressed... thus him fostering/guiding this project. Elidibus referred to the whole affair with Zenos as an "experiment" when discussing it with Varis if memory serves, which makes me wonder since it's an odd way of phrasing it all.

I would be on board with all of this until 4.5 dropped, tbh. The timeline we're presented with now regarding Val and the Dawn Warriors means Emmerololth was destroyed either before or concurrently with Nabriales, really. Elidibus and Lahabrea make a big stink about "that which should have been unending" being destroyed and what not when the Warrior of Light finally offs Nabriales but Emmerololth was destroyed by the Students at Val either relatively soon after or before (since she was present in the Chrysalis scene and Val's disappearance with the intent to destroy her and Eureka happens somewhere around 2.1 according to Urianger saying he's incapable of reaching the Students of Baldesion; this means she's simultaneously missing since 2.1 but present in 2.3 but also dead somewhere between there).

I'm less sold on Emet-Selch manipulating the Garleans past the War of Succession just because he seemed keen on taking his nap, but I concede it's equally likely he just says that to get Varis riled up. I also want to learn a lot more about Solus and the founding of the Empire and his rise through the ranks before definitively thinking Ascian aether also runs in his bloodline (because there's a lot of things I'm worried about if Ascians can interbreed with mankind).

At the same time, it mentions the hero harnessing both dark and light, which I edited in afterwards. I presume we'll find out what makes us suitable as a host for both dark and light later on, since we're likely missing that part for now. There is also the question of how complete Ifrit's knowledge is, aside from the fact that you faced him when you were much weaker. A weaker Primal such as him may be unable to fathom of two such equipotent blessings co-existing and the WoL has grown a lot since they first met.

My apologies! I saw your reply and grabbed it immediately. The fallibility of Primal knowledge shouldn't be glossed over, you're right. It feels so weird that every Primal knew and couldn't comprehend this though... unless, of course, it's by Ascian design than the rites of summoning were taught to lead to 'incomplete' Primals and thus they're unable to lay their mark on those "blessed" with the highest form of Tempering.

It is entirely possible that time passes differently on the shards but I think they risk making it a bit too complicated at that point, if that's the explanation. The word "transcendental" had brought to mind worlds outside the Source and the Reflections.

I'm very hesitant to think of life in the greater universe and prefer to stick closer to our Shards, but I definitely feel like the Kuribu and Winged Lion being based on aliens doesn't seem right. As for time dilation malarkey, I feel they've all but explicitly stated it with the idea that whole 'in that place between worlds time and space themselves bend and twist,' and we've known Unukalhai to be stowed away in Elidibus' pocket for at least 5000 years. Perhaps the 5000 years, for him, was only a few—which is why he's still immature (mentally, not physically though that is true too). Reconciling Sin Eater iconography from the Fifth Astral Era with the voiceover claiming "a century" definitely feels like it needs addressing.

Ah, but can she see it? Maybe this is too difficult even for her.

It frustrates me to no ends she has a set of Chekov's eyes and does little with them. If there isn't a single line in Shadowbringers that brings this up to say she was unable to see it for some reason I will be SO CROSS.

[Lauront]

This is an interesting point, and one I suspect we'll see clarified in the expansion. Ramuh muses that Light and Dark might've been given form when man was born—which also might be his explanation of the Sundering/the summoning of Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Ramuh could also be not knowing what he's talking about. That Light and Dark are primordial forces seems likely and I look forward to how the information is finally concretely presented to the adventurer. I'm not entirely sold on the Mother/Fathercrystals being independent of the manifestation of their primals (if this turns out to indeed be true) since both Bahamut and Alexander had a crystalline core and were particularly powerful Primals. That Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Primal beings strong enough to possess crystal core seems equally likely, just on a case heretofore unseen/documented.

It's possibly a difference of scale, then, however Alexander at the least required external aether to be sustained, which is why he sealed himself up, IIRC, given that he would bleed the land of its aether. Also bear in mind that following the sundering, we have 14 worlds that were born out of their aether. Given what we now know from the Eureka quest line, it seems logical to surmise that the quantity of aether these crystals hold is huge - and equally huge would be the quantity required to restore one of them, hence the drastic measures the Rejoinings require. So even if it's a matter of degree, the difference seems to be huge. So I'm just taking the crystals to be the "batteries" (closer to uranium, if anything), and the statue-like form we've seen of Zodiark in the Chrysalis (and now the paintings of both) to be the Primal manifestation.

Also, I'm going off the fact that the First has lost its elements as the flood of Light progresses; it would seem based on that that for the base elements to manifest, they require that darkness and light be in a state of balance.

I would be on board with all of this until 4.5 dropped, tbh. The timeline we're presented with now regarding Val and the Dawn Warriors means Emmerololth was destroyed either before or concurrently with Nabriales, really. Elidibus and Lahabrea make a big stink about "that which should have been unending" being destroyed and what not when the Warrior of Light finally offs Nabriales but Emmerololth was destroyed by the Students at Val either relatively soon after or before (since she was present in the Chrysalis scene and Val's disappearance with the intent to destroy her and Eureka happens somewhere around 2.1 according to Urianger saying he's incapable of reaching the Students of Baldesion; this means she's simultaneously missing since 2.1 but present in 2.3 but also dead somewhere between there).

I think that one may have more to do with the location than anything else, i.e. being in the Aetherial Sea, since it also killed them off as well; teleporting to that location may have been their proposed method of killing what they otherwise could not, since it was a desperate manoeuvre. Nonetheless, I'll concede that that one has yet to be given a satisfactory answer by the writers, assuming she really did perish there along with the Students.

I'm less sold on Emet-Selch manipulating the Garleans past the War of Succession just because he seemed keen on taking his nap, but I concede it's equally likely he just says that to get Varis riled up. I also want to learn a lot more about Solus and the founding of the Empire and his rise through the ranks before definitively thinking Ascian aether also runs in his bloodline (because there's a lot of things I'm worried about if Ascians can interbreed with mankind).

I mean either way, it's a logical way for the Ascians to ensure the Empire has a leg up in the fight. Whether it was through specific design that Zenos gained this power, or not, is just a side-thought of mine. In terms of whether Ascians could inter-breed with mankind, I'd say probably not in the usual sense of the word, but they are beings of pure aether, and my understanding based on the lore is that aether is passed on in childbirth, so I'd think it would suffice for Emet-Selch to have been possessing Solus at the time, and in the process suppressing Solus's aether, since Ascians seem to entirely erase their hosts for the duration of the possession.

I'm very hesitant to think of life in the greater universe and prefer to stick closer to our Shards, but I definitely feel like the Kuribu and Winged Lion being based on aliens doesn't seem right. As for time dilation malarkey, I feel they've all but explicitly stated it with the idea that whole 'in that place between worlds time and space themselves bend and twist,' and we've known Unukalhai to be stowed away in Elidibus' pocket for at least 5000 years. Perhaps the 5000 years, for him, was only a few—which is why he's still immature (mentally, not physically though that is true too). Reconciling Sin Eater iconography from the Fifth Astral Era with the voiceover claiming "a century" definitely feels like it needs addressing.

I would also prefer to stick to it, but at the same time we have at least some examples of different beings hailing from elsewhere flying around in the setting. I'll grant that it's possible that the floods may distort the passage/sensation of time, as could the mere split between the shards, so time dilation may be in the cards. Loss of night and day cycles alone would distort perception of time, but this appears to be more fundamental than that, if true, i.e. something like 1 of their years equating to 100 or more of the Source's. Whereas in the Void's case you may even have a sensation that time's just... stopped. I guess this is all consistent with the weird ways in which time could be manipulated in the Chrysalis.

Watching the trailer again, it's mentioned that during the time between realms, space and time warped (?) and bend (?) in unexpected ways, so there is probably something else going on here, too. I'm probably missing/forgetting something with regard to the Urianger reference.

I think its from left to right: Something bad happens, people pray and one primal comes -> people are split in their belief thus the primal is split too -> the last picture is Hydaelyn standing or hitting Zodiarc thus banishing him.

Now, I'm curious as to what that something bad might be.