Launch trailer trucked with my mind.

[FallenArisen0990]

I'm still waiting for my plot twist when we go back in time and stop the end of 1.xx.

[Evergrey]

But is it really Zodiark sending the Ascians out? Or are the Ascians just twisting things to the way they want it to be and say that it is in the name of Zodiark. I really want Zodiark to make an appearance now tbh, but heck knows what's gonna happen. -shudders-

Or could it be that Zodiarc (and the Ascians) knows something we don't? A greater truth that requires brutal means to either achive or prevent.
Truth often hurts. And alot of times one has to become a monster to fight a monster.
"The lesser of two evils".
"The end justifies the means".

[savageink]

But is it really Zodiark sending the Ascians out? Or are the Ascians just twisting things to the way they want it to be and say that it is in the name of Zodiark. I really want Zodiark to make an appearance now tbh, but heck knows what's gonna happen. -shudders-

Zodiark needs to make some sort of appearance, for sure. It's all speculation at this point.

[ADVSS]

Im not worried about Hydelyn nor Zodiark, When Midgardsormr can simply Seal the blessing of light whenever

Yeah. I didnt forget. Maybe you all have. Hydalyen made a "deal" with him. You know a god=primal doesnt make deals, unless they have to.

[Yllania]

Im not worried about Hydelyn nor Zodiark, When Midgardsormr can simply Seal the blessing of light whenever

Not anymore he cant.

[savageink]

Or could it be that Zodiarc (and the Ascians) knows something we don't? A greater truth that requires brutal means to either achive or prevent.
Truth often hurts. And alot of times one has to become a monster to fight a monster.
"The lesser of two evils".
"The end justifies the means".

I think the cliche we are most in danger of seeing in Shadowbringers is "Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[Evergrey]

I think the cliche we are most in danger of seeing in Shadowbringers is "Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Nice one.

Theory crafting is so much fun.
There's no Right or Wrong untill proven.
The mind can roam freely.

[OcieKo]

well, we spent the majority of heavensward "untempered" then. which is where I think this all points. those choices. is what you are doing coming from a rational moral center or is it blind devotion?

Valid point that is being missed. Aside from Hydaelyn's influence, no other "tempering" has ever shown a remote sign of weakening or being so easily removable by an external power. We can also safely say, as a being of power, Hydaelyn and Zodiark overpower any given primal by multiple orders of magnitude, so assuming that theirs would be so easily broken, while the lesser beings are thought impossible seems, unlikely in the event that both are primals using the same tempering.
And unless we refer to Midgardsormr as a primal as well, we can deduce that tempering isn't the only thing that can block further tempering. Ifrit's comment in the MSQ edition could be either a misinterpretation from a limited knowledge or correct. In this way tempering can be thought of as a version of a spell that induces another with the will and willpower of the caster, the former gives direction while the later protects/wards off the will of others. This would leave room for modifying the constraints and influences of either. With that being possible, the possibility of a spell existing that mostly confers a willpower warding effect would be possible, and that effect being the most obvious of general tempering. So when Ifrit's Will clashes against an apparently stronger Willpower, the first thought comes to being, a equal or stronger being already did what I tried to do to you. The concept of an equal or stronger being conferred a different effect that has similarities to mine own, may have never crossed his mind.

Next, we know that Hydaelyn's aether is fairly often released from her, while all other known primals take in aether. We also more or less know that her aether powers the world, and possibly as much as all 13 shards.

Before someone brings up Shiva, by this games lore, the Shiva Primal we see is the first of its kind, so it can be surmised that Ysayle is the "original" Shiva. So she should have no "Past lives experiences" also given that Ysayle, should be considered to be either Blessed or Tempered by Hydaelyn already given that she possesses the Echo. Shiva the woman is not a primal herself, but the source material for producing it. Also we have almost no knowledge of Shiva Tempering followers, its more of a zealous cult of misguided people.

Then we have the facet of Hydaelyn and Zodiark are older than the source, so if they are primals, who wished them into existence? Solus zos Galvus also refers to both Hydaelyn and Zodiark as primals in a way that may insinuate trying to take them both out as such beings, which deludes the argument of the Ascian's being Tempered by Zodiark if this train of thought proves true, since insubordination/treason should be one of the first things rendered impossible by the process.

[ADVSS]

Not anymore he cant.

Why do you say so?

[RaquelleAvarosa]

Why do you say so?

The Omega storyline. You should check it out.