Stop telling healers to go play dps

[Averax]

So sch and astro stack piety while whm can get good stats due to thin air plus lucid being op in new content? Not to be a jerk honestly just saying that's how it sounds.

Consider the following.

WHM has excessive MP regens that are only useful in extreme emergency situations like during progression like it is now.

I just chuckled at the idea that WHM would be chosen over AST and SCH for farm because of their good MP regen.

[Freerider]

Yeah and astro and sch used to have them too is the point I'm making.

[Seniade]

Yes but sch lost energy drain and Astro lost ewer and sch still has higher cost skills.

Ewer was reliant on RNG, so while nice, could not be relied on in case of a healer death.
For SCH, Aetherflow not only recovers MP, but also the stacks allow for 0MP cost healing skills (plus Sacred Soil is getting a trait to add a 100 potency per tick regen on top of the dmg reduction & 20% chance to proc a free succor). They also added a skill to spend 10 fey gauge for an AOE heal (again 0MP cost).

Like I said, if the healer's death causes a wipe, the party was already doomed.

[MaraD_]

I think SE didnt intend for healers DPS to be considered into raid dmg, but, i do think they intended healers to throw out damage occasionally (by design of the job, not encounter) just for "fun".
(To clarify, I know, and agree with, that yoshida said they dont take healer DPS into consideration for raids)

The reason healers DPS so often, is due to bosses auto attacks doing so little in damage.
But the irony, is that the reason bosses auto attacks do so little in damage, is due to healers healing so little on a basic GCD heal.
If a boss bring a tank to low HP, the healer either has to use emergency oGCDs, or spams cure/cure2 until they are full hp. Which if the bosses auto attacks were still like cleaves in damage, means our current healers wouldnt be capable of keeping up with the damage. they woudl run out of oGCD/emergency options.
So what is the answer? Stronger heals? Then there is almost no difference between a normal auto and a tank buster, since both bring tanks to really low HP. And are treated nearly the same.
It would get the WoW treatment, where HP ping pongs from low hp to full hp, back and forth. Healers get more emergency heals, and tanks get more mitigation to upkeep.
which seems to be the opposite of what SE wants to do.
The ONLY reason I can think of, is that SE does want both tanks, and more so healers, to throw out occasional DPS. Healers can ONLY throw out GCD DPS, if a tanks HP isnt ping ponging around.
The only way to do that, is to lower auto attack dmg of bosses, and lower healing potencies of healers.
OR to give healers a ton of strong/useful oGCD DPS to weave inbetween.
which, lets be honest, is perfectly fine, and not broken. I think SE thinks this would be broken, and make healers near DPS levels of damage, but if they cant afford to spend GCDs on nukes, you just cut their DPS in half (or more) and in solo content, healers can output DPS on levels of a tank in DPS stance, making them far more enjoyable in solo content.

But anyways, this is why I feel SE did think healers WOULD throw out damage spells, but at the same time, why they dont calculate it into the amount of DPS needed to win a fight.

[Freerider]

Ewer was reliant on RNG, so while nice, could not be relied on in case of a healer death.
For SCH, Aetherflow not only recovers MP, but also the stacks allow for 0MP cost healing skills (plus Sacred Soil is getting a trait to add a 100 potency per tick regen on top of the dmg reduction & 20% chance to proc a free succor). They also added a skill to spend 10 fey gauge for an AOE heal (again 0MP cost).

Like I said, if the healer's death causes a wipe, the party was already doomed.

Assuming that a healer going down and not recovering immediately due to higher dmg kills us.

[Averax]

Yeah and astro and sch used to have them too is the point I'm making.

And my point is that WHM has always been better at it, but that never got them picked over AST and SCH because WHM lacks utility. They will be fine without their extra MP tools, and if they're not, they'll be adjusted.

Once people are farming content, less healing is needed, and you bring the healers that bring the utility.

[Jeeqbit]

Though if I remember correctly, the character's were level synced from 80 to run the dungeon and were still getting hit fairly hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h3d_xZR-QY

Level sync, in theory, affects only one thing: what actions you have access to.

Level syncing also does an item level sync, which syncs to a pre-determined item level associated with that level. For L74 that is probably i403.

Even synced down in Stormblood leveling dungeons, enemies hit me pretty hard, so why wouldn't they in Shadowbringers leveling dungeons too?

They may be attempting to make healers have to heal more, but we shouldn't get our hopes up until we've actually seen it.

[Freerider]

Anyway this whole post wasn't supposed to evolve into healer discussion oops. It was more about letting tanks and dps know that they should be a little more comforting about all the healer changes because obviously we are lost about the whole thing.

[Evumeimei]

Remember Antittower or Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)? It's i180. You are doing it synced down to i270. That's a 90 item level difference. Of course you can go as a SCH and let the fairy handle big pulls.

Compare that with the leveling dungeon Bardam's Mettle where just 3 enemies can sink the tank's health while in tank stance. That could be why the L73 leveling dungeon was hurting a lot. Leveling dungeons are heavily synced close to the minimum item level.

We know nothing until we play it. Healing may not be any different once we outgear Shadowbringers' expert dungeons.

This is what I was thinking, as well. Only time will tell if a "damage spike" actually occurs. I honestly don't think SE would increase it that much, especially in dungeons, because those are supposed to be fairly casual... But maybe they'll surprise us.

everyone saying that "theyre uping incoming damage to compensate" are forgetting that square designs most content for the lowest common denominator. yknow those healers that let the party die to the heal check in ultima the high seraph? yeah, encounters have to be designed so that even they can clear it with minimal issue. so the healers that regularly do higher end content are rightfully concerned that taking away their options to dps will leave them with very little because they will still have downtime.

This is why I'm hesitant to expect any kind of significant change.

[GrimGale]

It's not only "current mentality", the game design itself favoured that kind of behaviour, considering how unfrequent damage was dealt to party/raid. The only way for a healer to feel he/she contributed during downtime was to Dps, or in AST case throw buffs around.