Astrologian Cards Can't Be a Coin Flip: A petition

[Fredco191]

Jeez. They’re really kicking Healer mains in the legs with this expansion, huh?

[Melichoir]

Jeez. They’re really kicking Healer mains in the legs with this expansion, huh?

Depends on your perspective. AST changes are more QoL related based on actual player feedback, SCH is being brought in line with the other too, and WHM being brought up to speed. Still missing the context of actual gameplay, so who knows. Could be absolutely terrible for healers, or could be eh, or could be best thing ever. Have to play to see.

Food for thought regarding AST changes:

Without knowing the nature of encounter design in 5.0, there are still some unknowns. From a design standpoint on the cards though, I'd say that the changes to the individual cards are thematically disappointing, but mechanically necessary. On the surface, it looks like it's just "oh so now we only have 2 different card effects and they're only different because they say to play them on different people."

But really, the decision making focus and the interactive aspect of cards is just being shifted to a different area. Instead of analyzing who's the best geared, who's the most skilled, and what card effects which job to what degree at what point in their rotation, and what player is skilled enough to use the card properly, and how does my decision of what to do with this card affect my ability to play the all-important AoE card for the next major burst, etc...
The decision of whether to play the card and who to play it on has been very streamlined, and the decision is instead about when to play the cards. You get to play every card, which feels a lot more like the job fantasy of slinging around buffs left and right, but without the gigantic statistics and probability and 5D Chess headache of trying to optimize an obtuse lovecraftian clusterf*** of game mechanics and interactions.

And there should still be room for complexity, optimization, interactive decision making, etc. in the new system, but it's instead about managing your Redraw charges, knowing when to sit on a card before playing it, efficiently prepping your seals for Divination so you can MA the rest of your Draws for more powerful damage buffs in the meantime, and quickly and efficiently slinging out multiple consecutive single target damage buffs from Sleeve Draw to stack on top of Divination for your 3 minute bursts, which are now reliable.

This isnt an end all be all point, but just one that is worth considering.

[MintnHoney]

AST changes are more QoL related based on actual player feedback

I would like to know where you got this nugget of information.

As for Zyrk, from the Balance discord, and his or her thoughts: they're interesting, but the perspective feels like it comes from believing that the mechanics of XIV's gameplay are so deep that a player needs to understand the nuances of every class and have extensive knowledge into the gear and builds of each player on the party to provide different effects that would be actually "beneficial." It's really not all that deep and difficult, this game we play.

[Veis_Alveare]

I would like to know where you got this nugget of information.

As for Zyrk, from the Balance discord, and his or her thoughts: they're interesting, but the perspective feels like it comes from believing that the mechanics of XIV's gameplay are so deep that a player needs to understand the nuances of every class and have extensive knowledge into the gear and builds of each player on the party to provide different effects that would be actually "beneficial." It's really not all that deep and difficult, this game we play.

That is entirely depemdant on the level on which you play and the degree to which you optimize. It's true for some, I would certainly say the overwhelming majority, but not all.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Depends on your perspective. AST changes are more QoL related based on actual player feedback, SCH is being brought in line with the other too, and WHM being brought up to speed. Still missing the context of actual gameplay, so who knows. Could be absolutely terrible for healers, or could be eh, or could be best thing ever. Have to play to see.

Food for thought regarding AST changes:



This isnt an end all be all point, but just one that is worth considering.

Idk. Even with an explanation like that I cant help but feel like AST is just a balance bot now.

[Allegor]

You could say AST is now Balanced

...I'll show myself out now

[Seoulstar]

Idk. Even with an explanation like that I cant help but feel like AST is just a balance bot now.

I personally think the statement is just trying to glorify it. As I've stated previously before, this is great for people who are crazy about balance. The decision making I would be doing as an AST in shadowbringers doesn't even sound remotely as interesting as the actual decision making I'm currently doing. I am still finding it insulting that people felt that AST was unreliable and unfun because it didn't draw balance 100% of the time. I still feel the dev team would have been better off with just removing the balance card instead of making the card system focus solely on it.

At the end of the day, no matter how people try to reword it. AST is a going to be a balance bot. We went from variety to monotony

You could say AST is now Balanced

...I'll show myself out now

[Limonia]

I get why they removed "unwanted" cards that don't directly buff damage, like Bole, Ewer and Spire. What I don't understand is why they just made everything the Balance card instead of still letting the cards have different effects. They would have just have to change the numbers so that things like Balance, Spear and Arrow do about the same damage. Then you would still have to choose who to buff for the best effect. You would still be able to make a BLM cast faster or make a BRD have more critical hits.

We would still have some different effects and would still have to think about who to give which card, but there would be no "bad" cards anymore. Now you only have to think about if it's a melee or ranged dps and everything does the same. Which is way simpler, but very boring as well.

Even though I liked it, I'm even fine with them having removed Royal Road. But I would have really preferred it if cards weren't all just kind of Balance now.

[Iscah]

I wonder if they're going to go back and completely rewrite the job quests because the job isn't the same at a basic level anymore.

It's funny because I was thinking that while unlocking AST with an alt just the other day. Throw Bole at whatshisface bodyguard guy to increase his defenses! Quick, use Balance/Spear at the lancer guy to boost his damage!, Use Ewer at yourself to replenish your mp!....guess after 5.0 new ASTs will question what the crap is Leveva's talking about.

The gameplay changes would never require a "complete rewrite" of the job quests, because a lot of it still applies regardless. There would definitely need to be some review of parts where Leveva is directly explaining card mechanics as lore, and the end-of-quest dialogue explaining the significance of the skill you're just about to unlock. But the overall story isn't that reliant on exactly what the cards do.

They've actually made some far more story-impacting edits to the quests already (for unrelated reasons). I made a separate post about it here.

[Seraphor]

The biggest downside to this Card system gutting, is the lack of agency we now have.

Sure, fishing for Balance might be irritating, but you did have options in Spear and Arrow, and the option to decide where these cards would be most effective.
Who’s doing the most damage? Who benefits more from Crit? Who benefits more from speed?
Now, you get a half-Balance to use on the player the game has selected for you to use it on… which basically makes the melee/ranged distinction pointless, you will use it on whichever gives the full effect.

How I would do it:

Minor Arcana and Seals stay as they are. Lord/Lady giving 8/4% to melee/ranged, and Divination giving AoE 6/3% based on Seals.

Balance: 8/4% Direct Hit to Melee/Ranged, grants a Solar Seal
Spear: 8/4% Critical Hit to Melee/Ranged, grants a Lunar Seal
Arrow: 8/4% Speed to Melee/Ranged, grants a Celestial Seal

Bole: 8/4% Direct Hit to Ranged/Melee, grants a Solar Seal
Ewer: 8/4% Critical Hit to Ranged/Melee, grants a Lunar Seal
Spire: 8/4% Speed to Ranged/Melee, grants a Celestial Seal

This way, you have the same ranged/melee system, but maintain some agency as to which method of DPS increase you employ and where.
Each option isn’t a full on Balance, so there’s nuance to your choice, and potencies increased to 8/4% to account for that, but each one upgrades to a Balance via Minor Arcana or Divination.

Draw a Bole, that’s as generic as you get, use it on a ranged DPS and get a solar seal.
Draw a Spear, do you have a Monk? Great! Use it. Do you have a Bard and Samurai? Oh... maybe it’s more useful on the Bard even at half potency… get a Lunar seal.
Draw a Ewer, you already have a Lunar Seal, Minor Arcana it into a Lady for a flat damage boost for ranged.
Draw an Arrow, you have a BLM and a NIN? Then it’s actually better to use on the BLM even though it’s down to 4%. Get your Celestial Seal.
Use Divination for your 6% AoE Balance.