Will bard lose it's identity/class fantasy?

[Xieldras]

Fair enough, I could've worded that better. I will concede that the quests themselves do involve music, but I don't recall the player character, the titular bard, ever actually doing any useful singing. We were on a quest to attempt to learn a song, so I guess that kind-of counts...

I fully agree with the OP, I'm just trying to say that it doesn't really matter (in my opinion). The reason we're called "Bard" is already paper-thin from a lore standpoint as it is.

Will agree that the quests involve music more than anything (I do remember seeing the ally NPCs in fights play songs too), but the fact that there is such importance dedicated to music in those quests (Heavensward quest line still has music as it's core story-wise), as well as in our skill set, does mean that Songs and Buffs do play a big part in Bard's identity. It's true that Bards in FF14 are more archer-like than the traditional Bards, but I could argue the same lore-thin argument for a few other classes in this game.

I'm okay with Archer being used as a base, what I'm not okay with is losing utility without getting anything in return and having our buffs streamlined to other rDPS classes or simply nerfed (also Battle Voice still not being applied to the player that uses it - am I deaf to my own voice?). This feels more like a regression towards our Base than more development to the Job's gameplay. That being said, this is only based on what I've seen in the Live Letter so I'll have to play the class when it comes out.

But I'm not liking what I'm seeing so far...

[bass9020]

Will agree that the quests involve music more than anything (I do remember seeing the ally NPCs in fights play songs too), but the fact that there is such importance dedicated to music in those quests (Heavensward quest line still has music as it's core story-wise), as well as in our skill set, does mean that Songs and Buffs do play a big part in Bard's identity. It's true that Bards in FF14 are more archer-like than the traditional Bards, but I could argue the same lore-thin argument for a few other classes in this game.

I'm okay with Archer being used as a base, what I'm not okay with is losing utility without getting anything in return and having our buffs streamlined to other rDPS classes or simply nerfed (also Battle Voice still not being applied to the player that uses it - am I deaf to my own voice?). This feels more like a regression towards our Base than more development to the Job's gameplay. That being said, this is only based on what I've seen in the Live Letter so I'll have to play the class when it comes out.

But I'm not liking what I'm seeing so far...

Im pretty sure the whole set of Heavensward quests also had the NPC or villains playing HP up/regen songs, I always though that was cool and was bummed when we didnt get that or any interesting song utility.

[Xieldras]

Im pretty sure the whole set of Heavensward quests also had the NPC or villains playing HP up/regen songs, I always though that was cool and was bummed when we didnt get that or any interesting song utility.

We did have a HP up song in the form of Troubadour, and I think HP regen is already widely in use by healers for Bard's to be useful if implemented. I did always want to have Haste or something similar though (Army Paeon is dead to me).

[bass9020]

We did have a HP up song in the form of Troubadour, and I think HP regen is already widely in use by healers for Bard's to be useful if implemented. I did always want to have Haste or something similar though (Army Paeon is dead to me).

Yea I just meant it was up all the time and didnt require a second ability like in the fights. And I totally agree about the haste or something that wouldnt be game breaking, they could have came up with something. (also Army Paeon is dead to me as well lol)

[Duskane]

I doubt bard will ever lose its identity
You know with Performance and all

[Xieldras]

I doubt bard will ever lose its identity
You know with Performance and all

Performance is out-of-gameplay though.

[Rika007]

I'm in the camp of not being pleased with it. I wanted more support, not less. Hell I would have sacrificed raw damage output for utility as that is what a Bard is supposed to be. Stormblood I felt like it was slowly starting to move towards finally becoming more then just an "Archer who knows three song's" meme and actually becoming a real actual Bard, but yet here we are again in Stormblood, and we actually have gone back to as little utility as we had in 2.0. People say "Sounds like you want Dancer, who is the true support of FF", but that's a load of shit. Bard is the historic first true support the series ever had, as far back as FF2, while Dancer didn't come onto the scene until 5, and really didn't have a presence in the series again till XI. Bard has always been the support of FF, seeing that get ripped away again after starting to get it back in 4.0 just feels bad.

[DPZ2]

Hey, I'm game to wait for the changes to actually come out so I can play them and then decide whether they're ok or not.

But ...

I expect to be able to do as much damage as a Black Mage, Monk or Ninja when those changes to take effect. I still remember that 20% drop in DPS and "You're support, so you're not expected to do as much damage as the real DPS".

[Rika007]

Hey, I'm game to wait for the changes to actually come out so I can play them and then decide whether they're ok or not.

That's valid, although I feel that really only applies to things like when your rotation drastically changes or you have an entire new job mechanic. In the case of Bard's support getting gutted we really don't need that though, Bard players are already well aware of what their support feel's like currently, and will acutely be aware of it's loss without needing to play ShB to see how it feels.

I expect to be able to do as much damage as a Black Mage, Monk or Ninja when those changes to take effect. I still remember that 20% drop in DPS and "You're support, so you're not expected to do as much damage as the real DPS".

Yeah but now that's gonna change to, "You don't have to stay still while you attack or be close to the boss at all times, so it wouldn't be fair if you could do the same sort of DPS we do." Which actually would be a very fair and valid complaint. Which then begs the question, if BRD and MCH no longer bring those very essential support skills like Hypercharge/Foe's and Refresh, and Dancer brings big Damage utility, and Bard/MCH shouldn't be dealing the sort of damage a BLM/SMN/MNK/SAM can do, then what's the point of bringing them?

[MPNZ]

This has a few points...

Across the Genre: BRDs are seen as like a buffing or debuffing class that plays music in a away from combat. And, we do have abilities like battle voice, pelotan, natures minne, wardens paeon, and, formally, Foie requiem. BRD totally still fulfills this.

In Final Fantasy: bard has a lot of song like the ones above, and does dmg sometimes as well. With known songs that regen HP and MP as well, but SB is moving away from mp regen and protect, and that may be a temporary stance like with rouse and sustain. One solution they could try is to use pitch perfect's slot or to try and use the blood letters/RoD procs to restore the party's mp so MB can help DoM classes again.

For FF14: It's most likely that players still want to feel like they are helping/rousing the spirits of their party by singing songs, and they want to get that feeling of playing at a concert. So, it's basically, all about seeing the excitement of the audience and theoretically playing with your band and a feeling of camaraderie of sorts. And, it totes looks like feels a bit more selfish because of the changes to it's main songs dropping Foie

Basically, the identity is still there, but it's looks like it's going through a self-centered phase