QOL change for War for ShB - Onslaught - No not asking for removal of gauge cost

[Lyth]

I suspect that the main reason why all the GCD potency values are inflated on all jobs this expansion is to de-emphasise oGCD usage. You're going to be punished a lot less for not single and double weaving effectively, so long as you hit every GCD. WAR looks to have the lowest base combo values (because the majority of your dps comes from FC/IC and burst), and already that 400 potency is worth around about an average combo GCD on WAR when you factor in gauge generation. It's worth even less when compared to PLD's combos.

These things will come out in the wash when you compare overall dps. Either way, WAR looks to have the potency advantage based on preliminary estimates (setting aside that flawed analysis that was posted on reddit a while back).

[Dralonis]

If you made Onslaught identical to the existing gap closers, it would be a straight up nerf to WAR. That's fine if you want it.

But the idea of keeping Onslaught the way it is now, while removing the gauge cost, is simply unreasonable. There are two tank jobs at the moment which have serious problems, and WAR players are complaining that a trifling issue like this isn't skewed enough in WAR's favour. Quite frankly, I think it's disgusting.

This is literally the only thing I find warriors complain about and it's hilarious. Besides that, their dps numbers aren't super high but those don't matter since they often tune DPS numbers last due to variables and changes as well as aligning it with other classes. Defensives are more important to balance first since they rarely change them. Unless they really whine and cry and yell until it is changed. Everyone wants to silence DRKs on complaining and then "it doesn't fit with them thematically. We want to have it in line with how they are from a class aesthetic". We probably won't see much of a change for GNB either, but Warriors charge will probably be changed by launch or the first month since it was even mentioned. At the latest, 5.1. Part of me feels like the charges won't stay at 200 potency either, but idk.

[whiskeybravo]

This is literally the only thing I find warriors complain about and it's hilarious. Besides that, their dps numbers aren't super high but those don't matter since they often tune DPS numbers last due to variables and changes as well as aligning it with other classes. Defensives are more important to balance first since they rarely change them. Unless they really whine and cry and yell until it is changed. Everyone wants to silence DRKs on complaining and then "it doesn't fit with them thematically. We want to have it in line with how they are from a class aesthetic". We probably won't see much of a change for GNB either, but Warriors charge will probably be changed by launch or the first month since it was even mentioned. At the latest, 5.1

Please, find the Warrior on these forums actively shutting down any conversation about other tanks.

[Dralonis]

Please, find the Warrior on these forums actively shutting down any conversation about other tanks.

I didn't say here specifically, but it has been done in the past. As well as on other sites. So, I guess saying "everyone wants to silence DRKs" Is a bit too of a hyperbole, there's often a lot of warriors that complained much more and louder and some sorta downplay or shrug off other tank issues as not that big of a deal. I remember before the shake it off changes, so many of them were just saying they weren't going to tank and super angry about it all as if they aren't allowed to have anything that's not some of the best stuff. We also don't know if PLD/DRK damage will be nerfed and they will be closer to warriors damage over all. Too soon to tell. Nascent flash doesn't have a cost and only a CD so you have not much to worry about with that skill. It's crazy. Very few things even use Beast gauge.

[NyneSwordz]

I didn't say here specifically, but it has been done in the past. As well as on other sites. So, I guess saying "everyone wants to silence DRKs" Is a bit too of a hyperbole, there's often a lot of warriors that complained much more and louder and some sorta downplay or shrug off other tank issues as not that big of a deal. I remember before the shake it off changes, so many of them were just saying they weren't going to tank and super angry about it all as if they aren't allowed to have anything that's not some of the best stuff. We also don't know if PLD/DRK damage will be nerfed and they will be closer to warriors damage over all. Too soon to tell. Nascent flash doesn't have a cost and only a CD so you have not much to worry about with that skill. It's crazy. Very few things even use Beast gauge.

Its not only hyperbole its also ironic seeing how this thread played out. I mean being called "disgusting" and "shameless" for bringing up a war concern kinda points to an opposite conclusion no?

And no one owns this forum and no one should be telling anyone else what they can or cannot post.

[whiskeybravo]

Personally speaking, most of my comments have been on the other tanks until certain Warrior related things came to my attention. War is my main so of course I'm going to say something about it, whether I'm right or wrong I don't really care - just throwing my opinion out there and the rest will shake itself out. But that doesn't mean I no longer support fixes for the other tanks.

[NyneSwordz]

Given how short the recast is on Onslaught is, I don't think that storing charges would do anything other than make the IR window more powerful.

It was an entertaining post, though.

It wont make the IR window more powerful. You act as if no potency adjustments will accompany a change to Onslaught being on the charge system.

[Kalise]

Very few things even use Beast gauge.

Very few things use any Tanks gauges.

Oath Gauge is just Sheltron and Intervention and soon Cover.

Blackblood is just Delirium, Bloodspiller and Quietus. Soon will be Living Shadow, Bloodspiller and Quietus.

Cartridges are just Fated Circle, Burst Strike and Gnashing Fang.

Beast Gauge is just Fell Cleave, Decimate, Upheaval, Onslaught, Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone. Soon will be Fell Cleave, Decimate, Upheaval, Onslaught, Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone.

If you want to get whiny, then Warriors only oGCD actions cost Gauge (Upheaval and Onslaught) while PLD and DRK have free oGCD's - Circle of Scorn, Spirits Within, Requiescat and Shield Swipe (Soon replaced with Intervene) - Plunge, Carve and Spit and Salted Earth.

This means that Warriors also have to do things like the math in this thread to figure out how much it is worth to use their Gauge on oGCD actions vs GCD actions... While other Tanks just spam their oGCD's freely for free damage that doesn't use any GCD resources (This is in addition to the fact that unlike other Tanks, Warrior's burst CD also affects their oGCD's so they also have to factor in trying to have them available for when they use IR. While again, other tanks just freely spam their oGCD's for free damage without care... At least DRK has to think about when to use CaS now because they need to double weave it to get the DA bonus but that's going away in ShB, as well as having them up for Blood Weapon for extra MP procs but I haven't a clue how that's going to work with ShB's BW)

Oh and for the record... I count at least 3 pretty active threads discussing DRK at the very top of the subforum. When I last went into one, I didn't see any Warriors trying to shut down discussions (I say "Last went into one" because I have little contribution to make on the topic. I preferred HW Warrior over DRK and didn't much like SB DRK so other people will have more experience playing DRK and thus have a better idea about what gameplay aspects they liked from both iterations that they would like to see back for the ShB iteration, because no doubt DRK mains are not happy about the current iteration that essentially turns DRK into WAR Lite with the godawful Delirium change)

[Lyth]

It wont make the IR window more powerful. You act as if no potency adjustments will accompany a change to Onslaught being on the charge system.

If you can store charges, you'll want to bank them so that you get off more free Crit/DH Onslaughts under IR. That intrinsically is going to give you more potency. You could drop the potency of Onslaught to counterbalance this, but I'm not sure what that would change. With a 10 second recast, it's always up. I think most people would prefer a dps neutral gap closer that they can use on demand over one that has to be used on recast (or saved up for buffs) to gain potency.

The caveat would be your opener, but the other three tanks are going to want to hold on to their gap closers until Trick goes off, anyways. I would be surprised if anyone opens a fresh pull with a gap closer.

Oh and for the record... I count at least 3 pretty active threads discussing DRK at the very top of the subforum. When I last went into one, I didn't see any Warriors trying to shut down discussions (I say "Last went into one" because I have little contribution to make on the topic.

Hey look.

Because it's fine.

It's...

Because it's a good skill.

...the usual suspects. And if you're familiar with their posting history, you'll see that this sort of WAR jingoism is definitely not a new thing. And it's aimed at PLD players too. Anything that could benefit another tank must be shut down.

Granted, there are a few WAR posters who have been pretty good about the whole thing this media tour, and kudos to them for being ethical.

By the way, don't worry too much about the math. That's what theorycrafters are for. Most things come down to a simple priority system once they figure out the details (knowing the math is entirely optional, and comes down to whether you enjoy it).

[Kalise]

-Snip-

Are you equating "Not sharing the same opinion" with "Trying to shut down discussions"?

Since, those 2 quotes you provided seem to suggest 2 players providing their opinion on the topic.

The fact that they're incongruent with yours doesn't mean they're "Shutting down the discussion". It merely means they hold a different opinion. Which is the literal purpose of discussions in forums, they're not supposed to be echo chambers where only people that agree with thread makers are allowed to post, but a place where people with different opinions can discuss things.

If someone starts to derail a thread, such as whining about how OP Warriors are for several pages which is completely off-topic to the actual thread and was sparked by merely a small comment about the class, that's more akin to trying to shut down discussions. Since derailing a thread can and does kill discussional value.

Opining with a different stance to other people in a thread does not.

For an example of shutting down discussion, look at this thread. This thread was supposed to be about Onslaught and its potential use as an opening skill, similar to how other Tanks gap closers (Which can add to burst enmity generation, if it is necessary. We don't know exactly how much Enmity the new Tank stance will be generating for us. But given that currently, people do like using oGCD's like Plunge on the pull because it's more attacks with Tank Stance enmity bonus and thus fewer necessary GCD's to be spent). Yet after 2 pages it became derailed with talks about how Warriors can't discuss anything because Warrior.

I have yet to see any such derailing in threads discussing Paladins, Dark Knights or Gunbreakers. Except for when some people *cough* decide to start ranting about Warriors in completely unrelated threads due to an aside comment that was somewhat relevant to the topic.