WoW this, WoW that: Why are FFXIV forum users so obsessed with WoW refugees?

[Anselmet]

That's not how burden of proof works. There is no "evidence" that what they claim is true. Only their word.

And again, even if we assume they aren't lying, they included Chinese players, which completely skews any attempt at comparison to pointlessness.

I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes sifting through google articles from 2010 about a game I could careless about. Yes, 12 million claim was including China. Bravo! However, they had 4 million players only. That means that there was 8 million players from outside China. If ffxiv has a million active players, then I bet a good chunk of us have played wow at some time due to mmos being a niche genre. I'm sticking to my guns here. Wow players have always been present in this community and complaining about them is utterly pointless!

[Doljax]

That's not how burden of proof works. There is no "evidence" that what they claim is true. Only their word.

And legal penalties should it be proven they deliberately misled shareholders, since as I pointed out, it was in their earnings report from that quarter.

And again, even if we assume they aren't lying, they included Chinese players, which completely skews any attempt at comparison to pointlessness.

Again, just because you don't want the Chinese players from that era to be counted, doesn't mean they don't meet the definition of subscriber. They (a) paid for definite chunks of access time to a service; (b) can be uniquely identified; and (c) their ceasing to pay for these time chunks would cut off their access to the service. The only substantive difference between a non-Chinese player and a Chinese player of that era was the amount of time purchased.

[Kaedan]

And legal penalties should it be proven they deliberately misled shareholders, since as I pointed out, it was in their earnings report from that quarter.

As long as the game was making their shareholders money with dividends, I guarantee they couldn't care less if Blizzard told them their lead designer was a talking cow.

Again, just because you don't want the Chinese players from that era to be counted, doesn't mean they don't meet the definition of subscriber. They (a) paid for definite chunks of access time to a service; (b) can be uniquely identified; and (c) their ceasing to pay for these time chunks would cut off their access to the service. The only substantive difference between a non-Chinese player and a Chinese player of that era was the amount of time purchased.

It's the opposite. The default position when making a comparison would be to exclude Chinese players for any comparison of subscriber numbers for a game that isn't sold in China. Because it completely skews the comparison to be meaningless.

Of course, it depends on what you're attempting to prove through comparison. Usually the argument people are trying to prove is "WoW is the best MMO ever because they had 12 million players". But if the game you're comparing it to isn't sold in China, then it's an invalid comparison. If Game X has 4 million subs in NA/EU but Game Y only has 2 million subs in NA/EU but has 4 million subs in China, then it's a false comparison to say Game Y is better because it has 6 million subs total. When making comparisons, you have to keep your context the same.

[guardin]

The ubercasuals in this game need a boogeyman so they don't feel any guilt when they get kicked for being dead weight in group content.

this...this right here is why. The wow players are coming in and hating on casuals turning our fun game into a lifeless grind like wow

[JohnSpawnVFX]

this...this right here is why. The wow players are coming in and hating on casuals turning our fun game into a lifeless grind like wow

I'll take a lifeless grind like wow over an extremely easy game like XIV where people still justify their bad performance with "you don't pay my sub" and treat other players as if they're bots that should just enable them and keep quiet, because "You're ruining my fun" (at the expense of the other people's fun).

[Kaedan]

I'll take a lifeless grind like wow over an extremely easy game like XIV where people still justify their bad performance with "you don't pay my sub" and treat other players as if they're bots that should just enable them and keep quiet, because "You're ruining my fun" (at the expense of the other people's fun).

Then leave? Why are you here and paying a sub if you don't like the game?

EDIT: Point of note, I'm not acknowledging anything you said is remotely true, just pointing out there's no point in paying for and playing something you don't like.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Then leave? Why are you here and paying a sub if you don't like the game?

EDIT: Point of note, I'm not acknowledging anything you said is remotely true, just pointing out there's no point in paying for and playing something you don't like.

Because:

- I still enjoy the story and gameplay
- I have friends to play with
- DF on my DC doesn't seem to be as bad as some of the others (except for usually the French players), and if I meet a player who replies to a simple question or constructive criticism with "You don't pay my sub" or some rude variation of it, I'll just start up a vote kick.

[Derio]

I think its because we havent had an influx of new players like this in a long time and thats why.

[Maero]

Some of it also stems from personal experience. Yes this game has some rude jerks and toxic people but having dealt with some wow players myself and how toxic they were is how i had reached my conclusion.
Also some that come from Wow and just bash on ffxiv and state how SE should implement this and that from Wow and they think they are such great players, lol

This does not speak for all players that have come from Wow however, because their is very nice ones as well and i do like to hear stories of those that really enjoy FFXIV.

@ Nedkel while i agree very much that SE for the most part listen mostly to the Japan crowd they have also shown to listen to some of the Wow crowd, at least i think.

[Aelsca]

Long-time lurker and kind of first time poster (yay!). But I figured I’d put in some of my thoughts as I feel there might be some room for my reflections.
I am not a WoW-refugee per se as I have been playing FF XIV on and off more frequently than WoW for a couple of years now. The main reasons for that is that I love the FF series. However, I was once a hard-core player when WoW resembled more what FF XIV is today. And if it matters – my first MMO ever was actually iRO.

Back on topic, let’s begin with what I’d say are a couple huge differences between FF XIV and WoW today.

First off, as a game FF XIV asks the player to be patient. It teaches the ropes slowly but firmly and with this I do believe the players that do stick around are used to this and themselves become patient – even if they have played WoW. I’m pretty sure that people reading this thread has seen other threads comparing the games with players saying – “…the combat in FF XIV is so slow because of the GCDs…” – being impatient and not knowing of what is too come, often also followed by a statement that they quit. Or that everything resolves around the main quests and it “takes too long”. These two things by themselves are a built in barriers for a lot of the players that would be classified as quite hectic and the stereotype of a WoW player that acts childishly.

Second. This game’s community system is strong enough that for example players that are new are actually tagged with a sprout icon that shows everyone and anyone that they are newbies – and it works. I call it a system because the game has rules, and the regulations about not being allowed to be toxic are enforced, which the community knows about and also at times has complained about. WoW has rules but they are seldom enforced in the same way.

On a third note. Some folks here have discussed about FF XIV getting easier, and maybe it has/is but at this time its light years away from WoW. Stick with me and imagine the following scenario:

Let’s say that Shadowbringers is released and anyone buying it gets a boost that puts them in whichever job they want at level 70 (with good enough-ish gear). Now imagine that within maybe a week they are level 80 and they have become 80 just by doing some random quests and dungeons which are most probably easier than Sastasha. Now they are facing end game with a fully maxed out character with all abilities and skills unlocked. They have also, at this point, probably never wiped once in a dungeon. And that’s a bit problematic cause the step to proper raiding and the hard versions of the dungeons is so steep so it would make the jump in difficulty to big, so what to do? In WoW’s example it has been to put in content that is so easy that it’s sadly brainless which also makes sure that a player is not able to handle all of the skills and abilities, which also have created heavy pruning of their job abilities/skills. At the same time there is content in WoW which is on the same or harder level as the hard content in FF XIV – meaning that the player base is so extremely widely gapped that it by itself creates a breeding ground for differences, specially without proper moderation against toxic behaviour. I could continue with examples as there are more layers than this (RNG loot for example) but by now the picture should be clear that FF is not easified or at least not in the same way as it is built on a totally different philosophy. Right?

I’m also quite puzzled as no one has mentioned that what some might think are “WoW-refugees” are actually unknowing (to them) FF XIV-players that didn’t realise they were more at home with this game?

I’m not surprised that these threads pop up, but what baffles me is that FF players that – obviously have played this game for a while – actually are selling their own game and experiences of levelling through the game so short? I am not saying anyone here is wrong because there might have been an increase of bad behaviour, though I kind of felt the same before Stormblood release (and Legion was going strong back then) so maybe it’s not just about ex-WoWers?