Ideas to improve ShB DRK's gameplay (Please SE)

[Danelo]

I think SE is wrapped up in DRK having the identity of "magic tank" and it seems that at least a chunk of the DRK mains aren't okay with that anymore. So in light of that I'm less concerned with identity than I am functionality and engaging gameplay. I may be wrong, not the smartest guy but I've gone two years without identity. I will sacrifice identity for engaging gameplay and functionality considering the leaps we have already made towards homogenization - it's almost total. And considering I don't think SE will do anything for us if our gripes are based on "we don't like the identity you created for us". Changes within the structure of DRKs current gameplay are easily doable and nothing I laid out above isn't already a mechanic in the game (current or past) or an animation in the game. Not saying I'm thrilled about the current playstyle but trying to be reasonable here. Afterall, we aren't WARs.

I understand where you are coming from regarding the RNG element possibly being too much. Last thing I would want is for SE to think it was too much and then nerf the potency based of RNG. That being said, the buff to TBN, and SE please don't nerf TBN based on this, looks like it's so strong it may be difficult to get full usage from it in dungeons as we currently do (based on watching the xenosys vex video). It would simply be another unique way to get to that sweet dark arts proc. Set the proc rate low if you wish, not saying it has to be 50% or even 25%. It just has to be enough to add another layer of engagement to the class. It would also be nice to have more procs because SE nerfed the MP return for siphon strike.

[Arsthan]

First, I'd like to apologize to you OP. When I read that Power slash would refresh Darkside, I got a "Storm's Eye" vibe from it and thought "God no, I don't want DRK to be even more similar to WAR than it already is."
Continued reading and my opinion of your changes made a 180°.

I freaking love how you made resource management and Darkside upkeep to fun and rewarding. This could probably even rival HW DRK, so bravo. I had a sour taste in my mouth since seeing the ShB combat trailer, only to get worse after seeing the actual changes made by SE - so thank you for making this.

At the same time, screw you OP. You made me sad; I really want to play your iteration, no scratch that, I'd love to play your DRK. But getting my hopes up that SE would actually use this rework for DRK before the expansion releases is probably unrealistic at best. For now it'd seem that we'll be stuck with the downgrade that ShB DRK really is.

Nonetheless, a 10/10 rework from your part and I'll pray that SE/Yoshi sees this and decides to use your ideas down the road, if not at ShB release. Will give the new DRK a try once ShB is out, but it's more likely I'll change to GNB as it just feels a lot more fun and busy.

Oh yeah and I wonder who in the world even asked SE for Delirium to be DRK's Inner Release, pretty sure no DRK main asked to be a copy of WAR.

[Freyyy]

Thank you for your very nice feedback Arsthan. When I came up with the idea of Power Slash extending Darkside I also started to think it'd be too similar to Storm's Eye but then I came up with the rest afterwards. It really didn't take me that long to think about all of that, it'd just feel like a good evolution to HW's DRK. The devs should be able to do it even better. Gaining extra levels should make a job evolve, not take stuff away from it and make it braindead. Especially when it used to be the more engaging and complex tank back in its first iteration.

Man I just want the job to feel good again. Right now it's almost as boring as ARR PLD and it'll come even closer to that in ShB if things don't change. There's almost zero chance that SE is gonna read this and apply it. I'm not delusional. But if it can help showing them how DRK mains want the job to be while giving them at least some basic ideas of how they could achieve that, that'd be absolutely great.

[Nivarea]

I have one question : with your rework, Power Slash could give the same amount of blood than Souleater or no? I assume Souleater would be a bit weaker potency wise than Power Slash if not DA'ed, like it was compared to HW-Delirium.

Otherwise, it seems quite good. It would go back to a HW-kind of feeling while avoiding some of its imperfections (MT-focus because of Blood Price and Reprisal proc fishing). It would also avoid what seems to be, IMO, the big caveit of ShB DRK, the fact that we generate much less mana, so the optimal play seems to actually stockpile ressource to go full Double-Weave in Trick Attack/Burst Window, meaning we would not use much oGCDs in-between. A bit SB-MCH feeling here, which is not a good sign unfortunately.

[Freyyy]

I have one question : with your rework, Power Slash could give the same amount of blood than Souleater or no? I assume Souleater would be a bit weaker potency wise than Power Slash if not DA'ed, like it was compared to HW-Delirium.

I don't know about the blood and potency differences on Power Slash vs Souleater. We could get Power Slash only for Darkside extending purposes, in which case it should be the lowest potency finisher with lower or equal blood gain, since we'd need it for Darkside anyways. We'd use this finisher roughly once every 30s in that case. On the other hand, we could get Power Slash as a higher non-DAed potency combo than Souleater with the same blood gain, essentially giving it the same role Delirium had in HW, which was the "filler" combo for when we didn't want to spend any MP. The downside would be that the Darkside extension mechanic wouldn't be as engaging anymore since we'd use the combo for damage anyways (just like EoS in the current ShB build). That's why I compare it to NIN's Armor Crush. There's no point at all in using Armor Crush outside of extending Huton, so this is what makes this mechanic important for the job. If a higher potency option didn't exist (Aeolian Edge), the NIN would just spam Armor Crush whenever they wouldn't need to refresh Shadow Fang, making the Huton extension mechanic non-existent.

[Nivarea]

Fair point. Another possibility is to tweak how much Power Slash would refresh the timer. But yeah, each possibility, if done well enough, could work.

[LegolasT]

The crazy thing is no one has played the new DRK. I'm sorry but I find these threads utterly useless with the highest respect. I am a DRK main and I also play WAR in raid content and Savage and agree DRK had some fundemental issues in 4.0 that hurt the job BUT the job was still solid in raid content which is the most important content in any MMO. My thing is with these improvement threads and such is based on people who haven't played the job. the only people that played the job were from people that have YouTube accounts a.d twitch like Mr happy or xeno. Xeno for one had fantastic analysis on the tank jobs going into 5.0 and he is a huge raid content and tank main and whose opinion actually matters because he actually played the job and masters the job. I think people need to relax and wait til July when Shadowbringers comes out and first master the job and its machanics. Before coming out with any any suggestions. Heck you have people that want action to com back simply for the animations and it's mind-blowing to me.

[Danelo]

There's almost zero chance that SE is gonna read this and apply it. I'm not delusional. But if it can help showing them how DRK mains want the job to be while giving them at least some basic ideas of how they could achieve that, that'd be absolutely great.

You'd think they'd be very attentive after shunning those that play DRK for the last two years. Not to mention DRK being the poster child for the expansion. It almost seems like SE is happy with making one MT and one OT OP, so from a business model perspective, they can say to themselves "they may not be happy with X but as long as we keep Y and Z in a good spot the player base won't go anywhere". So far they wouldn't be wrong if that were the case.

[Cirdan-Faust]

Since they are sticking to the idea that DRK is the magic tank, and thematically they are a dark paladin, I think a solution to the identity problem would be reworking some of the abilities to have more dark magic to make the gameplay more varied.

I'm thinking doing something different with flood of shadow, abyssal drain, salted earth. If they are giving PLD more holy spells why doesn't DRK get dark magic? Based on their insistence that DRK is magic mitigation and opposite to PLD physical mitigation (block), I don't understand why DRK is taking identity queues from WAR. Instead of Delirium doing what inner release does I would rather have it be closer to requiescat and then rework salted earth, abyssal drain, and flood into more interesting spells.

I also don't see why scourge didn't come back. All other tanks basically have an equivalent...

[Danelo]

The crazy thing is no one has played the new DRK. I'm sorry but I find these threads utterly useless with the highest respect. I am a DRK main and I also play WAR in raid content and Savage and agree DRK had some fundemental issues in 4.0 that hurt the job BUT the job was still solid in raid content which is the most important content in any MMO. My thing is with these improvement threads and such is based on people who haven't played the job. the only people that played the job were from people that have YouTube accounts a.d twitch like Mr happy or xeno. Xeno for one had fantastic analysis on the tank jobs going into 5.0 and he is a huge raid content and tank main and whose opinion actually matters because he actually played the job and masters the job. I think people need to relax and wait til July when Shadowbringers comes out and first master the job and its machanics. Before coming out with any any suggestions. Heck you have people that want action to com back simply for the animations and it's mind-blowing to me.

No one is talking about offensive potencies which are obviously subject to change. We can look at the tooltips and get a rough idea of rotations. We can see the job action trailers and wonder about unnecessary animation locks. There is foundational information that allows for critiques. I said this last time you posted a similar comment in a DRK thread.

Are you going to downplay people's issues with DRK in every thread from here till launch or is this just a weekend hobby?