Needed RDM tweeks after Media Tour

[Valavaern]

Displacement can stay, but the damage on it should have been moved elsewhere a long time ago. Engagement is a poor addition that only exists to try and "fix" the issue of certain maps making Displacement unusable. While most Jobs are getting new tiers of spells and skills with higher potency (Broil IIIs, High Jumps, etc.), we're getting a skill that ideally we should never use, since (at least in the media tour build) it's a downgrade on Displacement...

In truth, I agree completely; When Stormblood came out, DRG and BRD had the damage taken OUT of their jump-back abilities, so they were purely for movement... at the same time they gave RDM a HUGE jump-back with damage. The ideal solution would be to move Displacement's damage over to Corp-a-corp, and have Displacement just be pure movement. That would solve the whole problem without needing a third ability like Engagement.

If they want to keep Displacement as it is, then Engagement should have the same potency; they it's reasonable choice of whether to re-position, or remain in the crowded melee space.

[Rongway]

If they want to keep Displacement as it is, then Engagement should have the same potency; they it's reasonable choice of whether to re-position, or remain in the crowded melee space.

Something that a lot of people are missing is that Engagement is the same potency as Displacement. But as soon as you get it, Displacement's potency increases by 50.

We're not being punished for using Engagement to stay in place. We're getting rewarded for using Displacement to risk movement. This isn't just a point of view; it's literally what the skill acquisition is telling us.

[Valavaern]

Something that a lot of people are missing is that Engagement is the same potency as Displacement. But as soon as you get it, Displacement's potency increases by 50.

No, we see that. You seem to be missing that the second sentence overrides the first. They're not the same potency. Displacement is 50 higher.

We're not being punished for using Engagement to stay in place. We're getting rewarded for using Displacement to risk movement. This isn't just a point of view; it's literally what the skill acquisition is telling us.

We're ABSOLUTELY being punished for using Engagement to stay in place. The fact that SE has removed damage from other jump-back moves shows that they've already realized that that's not a good system. Disengage abilities should be used for mechanics, NOT as part of a DPS rotation. It's really not a good feeling when SE likes to play with DPS checks in tiny arenas.

[SaberMaxwell]

No, we see that. You seem to be missing that the second sentence overrides the first. They're not the same potency. Displacement is 50 higher.


We're ABSOLUTELY being punished for using Engagement to stay in place. The fact that SE has removed damage from other jump-back moves shows that they've already realized that that's not a good system. Disengage abilities should be used for mechanics, NOT as part of a DPS rotation. It's really not a good feeling when SE likes to play with DPS checks in tiny arenas.

All of this is still an improvement over how it is now where RDM loses 130 potency for not taking the risk.

This lets you keep the skill on CD, presumably with a lower animation lock for easier weaving. The way the skills interact right now imo is fine; there's nothing wrong with rewarding extra potency for taking a big risk like displacement.

[Rongway]

We're ABSOLUTELY being punished for using Engagement to stay in place.

Prior to learning Engagement, Displacement is 150 potency. On a smaller arena, you cannot Displace at all. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 150 potency.

After learning Engagement, Engagement is 150 potency and Displacement is increased to 200 potency. On a smaller arena, you can Engage for 150 potency. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 200 potency.

The idea that Engagement's potency is a punishment is flawed. It results strictly in improvements. In one subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 150. In the complementary subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 50. There is no subset of scenarios where the potency goes down.

[Valavaern]

Prior to learning Engagement, Displacement is 150 potency. On a smaller arena, you cannot Displace at all. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 150 potency.

After learning Engagement, Engagement is 150 potency and Displacement is increased to 200 potency. On a smaller arena, you can Engage for 150 potency. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 200 potency.

The idea that Engagement's potency is a punishment is flawed. It results strictly in improvements. In one subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 150. In the complementary subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 50. There is no subset of scenarios where the potency goes down.

I understand that's what the intent is, my argument is that it's a bad intent. Forcing a huge movement like that to maximize DPS doesn't feel good. If it was a good idea, Repelling Shot would still do damage.

[Burningskull]

Prior to learning Engagement, Displacement is 150 potency. On a smaller arena, you cannot Displace at all. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 150 potency.

After learning Engagement, Engagement is 150 potency and Displacement is increased to 200 potency. On a smaller arena, you can Engage for 150 potency. On a larger arena, you can Displace for 200 potency.

The idea that Engagement's potency is a punishment is flawed. It results strictly in improvements. In one subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 150. In the complementary subset of scenarios, the potency goes up by 50. There is no subset of scenarios where the potency goes down.

If you are forced to use a lesser potency move for a higher potency move it's punishment not rewarding. Same goes for positionals. Maybe it's a glass half full / glass half empty scenario, but most people see a potency loss not as a reward for doing good but a punishment for playing bad.

[Dualblade]

In truth, I agree completely; When Stormblood came out, DRG and BRD had the damage taken OUT of their jump-back abilities, so they were purely for movement... at the same time they gave RDM a HUGE jump-back with damage. The ideal solution would be to move Displacement's damage over to Corp-a-corp, and have Displacement just be pure movement. That would solve the whole problem without needing a third ability like Engagement.

If they want to keep Displacement as it is, then Engagement should have the same potency; they it's reasonable choice of whether to re-position, or remain in the crowded melee space.

Minor correction: Dragoon's Elusive Jump never did damage, it was purely a back-step/aggro dump move.